Medical marijuana cannot be sold in dispensaries, the Michigan Court of Appeals held in an opinion released Wednesday. The ruling held that the state's 2008 voter-approved medical marijuana law does not allow for medical marijuana to be sold, even among the nearly 100,000 people who have state-issued medical marijuana cards.

"The 'medical use' of marijuana does not include patient-to-patient 'sales' of marijuana. Defendants, therefore, have no authority under the [law] to operate a marijuana dispensary that actively engages in and carries out patient-to-patient sales," said appeals court judges Joel Hoekstra, Christopher Murray and Cynthia Diane Stephens.
"This ruling is a huge victory for public safety and Michigan communities struggling with an invasion of pot shops near their schools, homes and churches," said Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette said in a statement. "The court echoed the concerns of law enforcement, clarifying that this law is narrowly focused to help the seriously ill, not the creation of a marijuana free-for-all."
Not everyone was as pleased as Schuette. Chuck Ream, of A2 Compassionate Health Care in Ann Arbor told the Associated Press the ruling was an "assault on democracy" that would leave large numbers of patients who depend on dispensaries out in the cold.
"If they want wheelchairs chained to every door at the Capitol, if they want to fight about this -- oh, boy, they'll have a fight," said Ream. "There are a lot of people who don't want to be drooling idiots on Oxycontin. They've found a medicine that relieves their pain and makes them happy."
Robin Schneider, spokesperson for the Michigan Association of Compassion Centers, told the Lansing News the decision will force medical marijuana distribution into neighborhoods and gas station parking lots.
"It's horrible," she said of the decision. "My biggest concern right now is that what they have done is they have made a decision that will in fact shut down the dispensaries. This will create situations where people are selling marijuana in their neighborhoods," she said. "Little old ladies are going to be meeting on street corners to get their medicine," she said, making them easy targets for crime. "Dispensaries create safe access to medicine."
Michigan medical marijuana patients and providers had hoped the courts would save them from antithetical local governments, but they have been proven wrong. Now, if they want a dispensary system, they are going to have to fight long political battles. In the meantime, it's the patients who will be out of luck.
Fear Mongers at work again
Dumb Fucks.
Ridiculous
In other words, when a new severely ill patient signs up for medication, he will legally be bound to waiting for an entire plant to be cultivated and cured because he can only be provided marijuana from his caregiver? You might as well be telling the patient who broke his arm that you will provide him with Vicodin to help with the pain, but he will just have to put up with it for the next six months until his prescription is prepared. This vote is a joke, attempting to negate something we as a state overwhelmingly voted to allow.
I completely agree. Honestly,
I completely agree. Honestly, people like me, people with Crohns Disease, use such medication to soothe the pain, and stop the horrible cramping. I'd like to see you doubled-over in pain, and theres nothing you can do because someone took your medicine away. I hope you're happy, I'm not anymore.
This is incredibly absurd!
This is incredibly absurd!
Michigan,I've heard that name before
From workers to patients,a total war on people.Not just any people,middle to low class rapidly disenfranchised people.In Canada we had an election and went from a minority conservative(neocon)government to a dictatorship on 1% of the vote shifting.These conservative,evangelical right wing zealots have far too much power for such a small minority.There is no word in the conservative lexicon for compassion.
Canada has this problem too,
Canada has this problem too, now? Geez. You would think after watching Intervention and the local news that we could concentrate on pills, heroin, meth, cocaine, and oh the many pedophiles that escape detection! Why not focus on the real drugs and problems that we have?
MEDICAL MARIJUANA EVALUATIONS AND CARDS, WOODLAND HILLS $59, SAN
ATTENTION DISPENSARIES
NOTICE TO OUR PATIENTS
(Los Angeles, SF Valley, San Gabriel Valley)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS SUED FOR
UNLAWFUL PRACTICE OF MEDICINE, FRAUD, TAX EVASION AND FALSE REPORTING OF TAXES,
MONEY LAUNDERING, RACKETEERING and a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION is being initiated.
Lawsuit filed in Los Angeles Superior Court, Case No: EC057099
and is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD for ALL PATIENTS TO SEE!!!
Unfortunately, we are sorry to announce that just like in early 2010, we are going to have to
DENY ACCESS to patients whose recommendations were issued by the ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and
or DOCTORS listed below.
If you have any questions, please visit www.LEGALinfoWEBSITE.com or email them
[email protected] so that you can access all the public information yourself.
Please visit a LEGAL and CA MED BOARD Licensed medical marijuana clinic to obtain a NEW REC
because if your recommendation was issued by any of the DEFENDANTS, it will be REVOKED just
like in 2010 when over 30,000 patients had their recommendations REVOKED because of
fraudulent doctors.
This matter is 100 times MORE SERIOUS and will be CRIMINALLY INVESTIGATED as well because
the defendants have clearly been identified as NON DOCTORS who are operating this CRIMINAL
GROUP in CA and other states.
How to make sure the MMJ clinic you will chose in the future is LEGAL:
1. Go to: www.MBC.Ca.gov/licensee
2. On LEFT SIDE under QUICK LINKS go to: Fictitious Name Permit
3. Click on Name Search for Fictitious Name Permit
4. On next page, in the Business Name Field: INPUT the EXACT NAME OF the MMJ CLINIC
5. The Fictitious Name Permit Information screen will appear if MMJ clinic is licensed
6. You will clearly see the FNP#, address and Permit Status: LICENSE RENEWED & CURRENT
7. If your MMJ clinic search DOES NOT reveal an FNP Permit, it’s an ILLEGAL CLINIC!!!
8. If your MMJ clinic search reveals a DIFFERENT NAME that's NOT EXACT, it’s ILLEGAL!!!
9. The LAW clearly states that the FNP# License has to be EXACT NAME as ADVERTISED
10.One more step. Go to your MMJ clinic and ASK the front desk WHO OWNS THIS CLINIC?
If you DO NOT GET A DIRECT ANSWER that it’s a Doctor or Professional Corporation, then
YOU SHOULD BE VERY SUSPICIOUS and CHOSE a CLINIC that is DOCTOR OWNED!!!
PATIENTS: Below You Will Find 2 Lists (LA-SFV-SGV)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS (Defendants) and DOCTORS. (LEFT SIDE) and
suspected ILLEGAL MMJ CLINICS who DO NO HAVE Fictitious Name Permit to practice medicine
in California as required by California Law and issued by California Medical Board (RIGHT SIDE).
Check ALL MMJ CLINICS yourself and be informed: Google (Ca Med Board FNP Search and
input the NAME OF CLINIC exactly as advertised. NO FNP lic, CLINIC IS ILLEGAL)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS
Named as DEFENDANTS and UNDER
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION
CLINICS that DO NOT Have a
FNP Permit Required by Law to Practice
Medicine in California From Ca Med Board
1. Howard Ragland, MD
2. Samuel L. Drake, MD
3. Thomas Crawford, MD
4. Stephanie Higgins, MD
5. John Weaver, MD
6. Raja M. Toke, MD
7. Mark R. Rose, MD
8. James Kao, DO
9. James Lin, MD
10. George R. Goy, MD
11. Robert Young, MD
12. Al Fisher, MD
13. Jesus Saucedo, MD
14. Best Choice Evaluations
15. San Jose 420 Evaluations
16. Oakland 420 Evaluations
17. Sacramento 420 Evaluations
18. Long Beach 420 Evaluations
19. San Diego 420 Evaluations
20. Bakersfield 420 Evaluations
21. HWood Herb Medical Center
22. The Doctor
23. OC Medical Center
24. San Bernardino Medical Center
25. Does 1 – 100
(More defendants including DOCTORS
will be added to this lawsuit)
1. The Doctor on Highland (Defendant)
2. Sherman Oaks Herbal Center @ ShermOaks)
3. Compassionate Care Consulting @ Arleta
4. No Hassle Evaluations @ Reseda
5. 420 Evaluations on Vermont
6. Uni Med @ Wilshire Blvd
7. West Coast Evaluations @ SFV
8. COI Evaluations @ City of Industry
9. Cal Med 420 @ La Habra
10.Lakha Medical Clinic @ Huntington Park
11.MC2 Cannabis Consultants @ LA
12.Green Med Clinics @ LA
13.The Farmacy Global Organic Medicine
14.Medical Marijuana Doctors @ Eagle Rock
15.Medical Marijuana Doctors @ NoHo
16.Medical Advisory Center
17.Allied Medical Clinic
18.Alternative Medical Consulting
19.Hollywood Easy Clinic (Sunset/LA Brea Doctor)
20.Hollywood Easy Clinic (Laurel Canyon)
21.Organic Medirex @ NoHo
22.RAM of Granada Hills
Patients Have a Right to Know the FACTS & the TRUTH: Go To: www.LEGALinfoWEBSITE.com
NOTICE TO OUR PATIENTS
(Inland Empire: San Bernardino-Riverside)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS SUED FOR
UNLAWFUL PRACTICE OF MEDICINE, FRAUD, TAX EVASION AND FALSE REPORTING OF TAXES,
MONEY LAUNDERING, RACKETEERING and a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION is being initiated.
Lawsuit filed in Los Angeles Superior Court, Case No: EC057099
and is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD for ALL PATIENTS TO SEE!!!
Unfortunately, we are sorry to announce that just like in early 2010, we are going to have to
DENY ACCESS to patients whose recommendations were issued by the ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and
or DOCTORS listed below.
If you have any questions, please visit www.LEGALinfoWEBSITE.com or email them
[email protected] so that you can access all the public information yourself.
Please visit a LEGAL and CA MED BOARD Licensed medical marijuana clinic to obtain a NEW REC
because if your recommendation was issued by any of the DEFENDANTS, it will be REVOKED just
like in 2010 when over 30,000 patients had their recommendations REVOKED because of
fraudulent doctors.
This matter is 100 times MORE SERIOUS and will be CRIMINALLY INVESTIGATED as well because
the defendants have clearly been identified as NON DOCTORS who are operating this CRIMINAL
GROUP in CA and other states.
How to make sure the MMJ clinic you will chose in the future is LEGAL:
1. Go to: www.MBC.Ca.gov/licensee
2. On LEFT SIDE under QUICK LINKS go to: Fictitious Name Permit
3. Click on Name Search for Fictitious Name Permit
4. On next page, in the Business Name Field: INPUT the EXACT NAME OF the MMJ CLINIC
5. The Fictitious Name Permit Information screen will appear if MMJ clinic is licensed
6. You will clearly see the FNP#, address and Permit Status: LICENSE RENEWED & CURRENT
7. If your MMJ clinic search DOES NOT reveal an FNP Permit, it’s an ILLEGAL CLINIC!!!
8. If your MMJ clinic search reveals a DIFFERENT NAME that's NOT EXACT, it’s ILLEGAL!!!
9. The LAW clearly states that the FNP# License has to be EXACT NAME as ADVERTISED
10.One more step. Go to your MMJ clinic and ASK the front desk WHO OWNS THIS CLINIC?
If you DO NOT GET A DIRECT ANSWER that it’s a Doctor or Professional Corporation, then
YOU SHOULD BE VERY SUSPICIOUS and CHOSE a CLINIC that is DOCTOR OWNED!!!
TO OUR PATIENTS: Below You Will Find 2 Lists (SB/RV)
DEFENDANTS: ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS. (LEFT SIDE) and suspected ILLEGAL MMJ
CLINICS who DO NO HAVE Fictitious Name Permit to practice medicine in California as required
by California Law and issued by California Medical Board (RIGHT SIDE).
Check ALL MMJ CLINICS yourself and be informed: Google (Ca Med Board FNP Search and
input the NAME OF CLINIC exactly as advertised. NO FNP lic, CLINIC IS ILLEGAL)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS Named as
DEFENDANTS and UNDER CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION
CLINICS that DO NOT Have a
FNP Permit Required by Law to Practice
Medicine in California From Ca Med Board
1. Howard Ragland, MD
2. Samuel L. Drake, MD
3. Thomas Crawford, MD
4. Stephanie Higgins, MD
5. John Weaver, MD
6. Raja M. Toke, MD
7. Mark R. Rose, MD
8. James Kao, DO
9. James Lin, MD
10. George R. Goy, MD
11. Robert Young, MD
12. Al Fisher, MD
13. Jesus Saucedo, MD
14. Best Choice Evaluations
15. San Jose 420 Evaluations
16. Oakland 420 Evaluations
17. Sacramento 420 Evaluations
18. Long Beach 420 Evaluations
19. San Diego 420 Evaluations
20. Bakersfield 420 Evaluations
21. HWood Herb Medical Center
22. The Doctor
23. OC Medical Center
24. San Bernardino Medical Center
25. Does 1 – 100
(More defendants including DOCTORS will
be added to this lawsuit)
1. San Bernardino Medical Center (Def)
2. Low Cost Medical Center @ (All SKYPE)
3. SBMedi 420 Evaluations Bloomington
4. COI Evaluations @ City of Industry
5. 420 Wellness Today @ Montclair
6. Cal Med 420 @ Chino
7. Serenity Medical Evaluations @ Riverside
8. Heal Point Center @ Rubidoux
9. THCF Medical Clinic & Patient @ Riverside
10.Cal Med 420 @ Riverside
11.Medical Cannabis Evaluation Specialists
12.Simple Medical Cannabis Evaluations
13.Compassionate Harvest Medical Clinic
14.IECC @ Temecula
Patients Have a Right to Know the FACTS & the TRUTH: Go To: www.LEGALinfoWEBSITE.com
NOTICE TO OUR PATIENTS
(Orange County/Long Beach)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS SUED FOR
UNLAWFUL PRACTICE OF MEDICINE, FRAUD, TAX EVASION AND FALSE REPORTING OF TAXES,
MONEY LAUNDERING, RACKETEERING and a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION is being initiated.
Lawsuit filed in Los Angeles Superior Court, Case No: EC057099
and is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD for ALL PATIENTS TO SEE!!!
Unfortunately, we are sorry to announce that just like in early 2010, we are going to have to
DENY ACCESS to patients whose recommendations were issued by the ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and
or DOCTORS listed below.
If you have any questions, please visit www.LEGALinfoWEBSITE.com or email them
[email protected] so that you can access all the public information yourself.
Please visit a LEGAL and CA MED BOARD Licensed medical marijuana clinic to obtain a NEW REC
because if your recommendation was issued by any of the DEFENDANTS, it will be REVOKED just
like in 2010 when over 30,000 patients had their recommendations REVOKED because of
fraudulent doctors.
This matter is 100 times MORE SERIOUS and will be CRIMINALLY INVESTIGATED as well because
the defendants have clearly been identified as NON DOCTORS who are operating this CRIMINAL
GROUP in CA and other states.
How to make sure the MMJ clinic you will chose in the future is LEGAL:
1. Go to: www.MBC.Ca.gov/licensee
2. On LEFT SIDE under QUICK LINKS go to: Fictitious Name Permit
3. Click on Name Search for Fictitious Name Permit
4. On next page, in the Business Name Field: INPUT the EXACT NAME OF the MMJ CLINIC
5. The Fictitious Name Permit Information screen will appear if MMJ clinic is licensed
6. You will clearly see the FNP#, address and Permit Status: LICENSE RENEWED & CURRENT
7. If your MMJ clinic search DOES NOT reveal an FNP Permit, it’s an ILLEGAL CLINIC!!!
8. If your MMJ clinic search reveals a DIFFERENT NAME that's NOT EXACT, it’s ILLEGAL!!!
9. The LAW clearly states that the FNP# License has to be EXACT NAME as ADVERTISED
10.One more step. Go to your MMJ clinic and ASK the front desk WHO OWNS THIS CLINIC?
If you DO NOT GET A DIRECT ANSWER that it’s a Doctor or Professional Corporation, then
YOU SHOULD BE VERY SUSPICIOUS and CHOSE a CLINIC that is DOCTOR OWNED!!!
TO OUR PATIENTS: Below You Will Find 2 Lists (OC/LB)
DEFENDANTS: ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS. (LEFT SIDE) and suspected ILLEGAL MMJ
CLINICS who DO NO HAVE Fictitious Name Permit to practice medicine in California as required
by California Law and issued by California Medical Board (RIGHT SIDE).
Check ALL MMJ CLINICS yourself and be informed: Google (Ca Med Board FNP Search and
input the NAME OF CLINIC exactly as advertised. NO FNP lic, CLINIC IS ILLEGAL)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS Named as
DEFENDANTS and UNDER CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION
CLINICS that DO NOT Have a
FNP Permit Required by Law to Practice
Medicine in California From Ca Med Board
1. Howard Ragland, MD
2. Samuel L. Drake, MD
3. Thomas Crawford, MD
4. Stephanie Higgins, MD
5. John Weaver, MD
6. Raja M. Toke, MD
7. Mark R. Rose, MD
8. James Kao, DO
9. James Lin, MD
10. George R. Goy, MD
11. Robert Young, MD
12. Al Fisher, MD
13. Jesus Saucedo, MD
14. Best Choice Evaluations
15. San Jose 420 Evaluations
16. Oakland 420 Evaluations
17. Sacramento 420 Evaluations
18. Long Beach 420 Evaluations
19. San Diego 420 Evaluations
20. Bakersfield 420 Evaluations
21. HWood Herb Medical Center
22. The Doctor
23. OC Medical Center
24. San Bernardino Medical Center
25. Does 1 – 100
(More defendants including
DOCTORS will be added to this
lawsuit)
1. AMC (Anaheim Medical Center)
2. COI Evaluations @ City of Industry
3. Dr. BudREc @ Fullerton
4. Orange Medical Marijuana @ Santa
Ana
5. 4th Street Medical Center @ Santa Ana
6. Edinger Evaluations @ Santa Ana
7. Low Cost Medical Center @ (All SKYPE)
8. Compassionate Cannabis Care
9. Medical Cannabis of SoCal (LB and
Irvine)
10.One Care @ Santa Ana
11.Go Green @ Huntington Beach
12.1800 Dr. Rx
13.OCMMES
14.Dr. Legit Evaluation Center @
Bellflower
15.Lakeshore Evaluations @ Long Beach
16.Consulting Care for Wellness @ Long
Beach
17.Alternative Medical Consulting @ Long
Beach
18.Alternative Care Clinics @ Long Beach
19.EECMM @ Long Beach
20.$35 Recommendations @ Long Beach
21.Medical Marijuana of Orange County @
Dana Pt.
Patients Have a Right to Know the FACTS & the TRUTH: Go To: www.LEGALinfoWEBSITE.com
NOTICE TO OUR PATIENTS
(San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose/Sacramento)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS SUED FOR
UNLAWFUL PRACTICE OF MEDICINE, FRAUD, TAX EVASION AND FALSE REPORTING OF TAXES,
MONEY LAUNDERING, RACKETEERING and a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION is being initiated.
Lawsuit filed in Los Angeles Superior Court, Case No: EC057099
and is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD for ALL PATIENTS TO SEE!!!
Unfortunately, we are sorry to announce that just like in early 2010, we are going to have to
DENY ACCESS to patients whose recommendations were issued by the ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and
or DOCTORS listed below.
If you have any questions, please visit www.LEGALinfoWEBSITE.com or email them
[email protected] so that you can access all the public information yourself.
Please visit a LEGAL and CA MED BOARD Licensed medical marijuana clinic to obtain a NEW REC
because if your recommendation was issued by any of the DEFENDANTS, it will be REVOKED just
like in 2010 when over 30,000 patients had their recommendations REVOKED because of
fraudulent doctors.
This matter is 100 times MORE SERIOUS and will be CRIMINALLY INVESTIGATED as well because
the defendants have clearly been identified as NON DOCTORS who are operating this CRIMINAL
GROUP in CA and other states.
How to make sure the MMJ clinic you will chose in the future is LEGAL:
1. Go to: www.MBC.Ca.gov/licensee
2. On LEFT SIDE under QUICK LINKS go to: Fictitious Name Permit
3. Click on Name Search for Fictitious Name Permit
4. On next page, in the Business Name Field: INPUT the EXACT NAME OF the MMJ CLINIC
5. The Fictitious Name Permit Information screen will appear if MMJ clinic is licensed
6. You will clearly see the FNP#, address and Permit Status: LICENSE RENEWED & CURRENT
7. If your MMJ clinic search DOES NOT reveal an FNP Permit, it’s an ILLEGAL CLINIC!!!
8. If your MMJ clinic search reveals a DIFFERENT NAME that's NOT EXACT, it’s ILLEGAL!!!
9. The LAW clearly states that the FNP# License has to be EXACT NAME as ADVERTISED
10.One more step. Go to your MMJ clinic and ASK the front desk WHO OWNS THIS CLINIC?
If you DO NOT GET A DIRECT ANSWER that it’s a Doctor or Professional Corporation, then
YOU SHOULD BE VERY SUSPICIOUS and CHOSE a CLINIC that is DOCTOR OWNED!!!
TO OUR PATIENTS: Below You Will Find 2 Lists (SF-SAC)
DEFENDANTS: ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS. (LEFT SIDE) and suspected ILLEGAL MMJ
CLINICS who DO NO HAVE Fictitious Name Permit to practice medicine in California as required
by California Law and issued by California Medical Board (RIGHT SIDE).
Check ALL MMJ CLINICS yourself and be informed: Google (Ca Med Board FNP Search and
input the NAME OF CLINIC exactly as advertised. NO FNP lic, CLINIC IS ILLEGAL)
ILLEGAL 420 CLINICS and DOCTORS Named as
DEFENDANTS and UNDER CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION
CLINICS that DO NOT Have a
FNP Permit Required by Law to Practice
Medicine in California From Ca Med Board
1. Howard Ragland, MD
2. Samuel L. Drake, MD
3. Thomas Crawford, MD
4. Stephanie Higgins, MD
5. John Weaver, MD
6. Raja M. Toke, MD
7. Mark R. Rose, MD
8. James Kao, DO
9. James Lin, MD
10. George R. Goy, MD
11. Robert Young, MD
12. Al Fisher, MD
13. Jesus Saucedo, MD
14. Best Choice Evaluations
15. San Jose 420 Evaluations
16. Oakland 420 Evaluations
17. Sacramento 420 Evaluations
18. Long Beach 420 Evaluations
19. San Diego 420 Evaluations
20. Bakersfield 420 Evaluations
21. HWood Herb Medical Center
22. The Doctor
23. OC Medical Center
24. San Bernardino Medical Center
25. Does 1 – 100
(More defendants including DOCTORS will
be added to this lawsuit)
1. Best Choice Evaluations SF (Defendant)
2. Sacramento 420 Evaluations (Defendant)
3. My 420 Relief @ Sacramento
4. San Jose 420 Evaluations (Defendant)
5. Los Cost Medical Center @ Sacramento
6. Qualified Patient ID Center @ Sacramento
7. Green Relief @ San Francisco
8. Oakland 420 Evaluations (Defendant)
9. Low Cost Medical Center Oak @ SKYPE
10.Be Legally Green @ San Jose
11.Cali 420 Doctor Evaluations @ San Jose
12.420 Medical Doctor @ San Jose
13.Green Time Consultants @ Berkley
14.Mikuriya Medical Practice
15.Alternative Health Solutions @ Modesto
16.Prop 215 Info Center Clinic @ Modesto
17.Be Legally Green @ Hayward
18.SFBayTHC 420 Evaluations @ Milpitas
Patients Have a Right to Know the FACTS & the TRUTH: Go To: www.LEGALinfoWEBSITE.com
EC057099
Court Case E057099 is a fake / nonsense lawsuit that was dismissed and no longer even on file
this may be verified at www.lasuperiorcourt.org
the blog has been inappropriately used for libelous purposes *
E057099
E057099 is a fake lawsuit that was dismissed by LA Superior Court *
postings such as the one above are solely for the purposes of libel *
EC057099 is a fake lawsuit
EC057099 is a fake lawsuit created for purposes of libel... check LA Court system files - fake case (Robert Johnson Pro se) was created and utilized to promote medical office run by unscrupulous individuals...
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