Crazy Man Leads Opposition to Marijuana Legalization in California, Part II

Bishop Ron Allen is seriously one of the best things to ever happen to the marijuana legalization debate. In all my years of marijuana reform advocacy, I've never seen an opponent so unhinged, so incoherent and intoxicated by his own idiocy. Just watch this FOX News debate with MPP's Steve Fox and see if you can figure out what the hell Bishop Allen is trying to say:



Despite being rather familiar with the common arguments and rhetoric on both sides of the marijuana debate, I had to watch Allen's comments twice before I could confidently translate this as a tortured attempt to refute the argument that marijuana laws exacerbate racial disparities in the criminal justice system.

Honestly, it requires deep concentration to understand what on earth this guy is talking about, and I can only imagine how this comes across to folks who haven't had much exposure to the issue. I'm begging to wonder if it betrays a political bias in our favor on the part of FOX News that they're putting Allen on the air. At the very least, it's certainly a positive sign that the intellectual wing of the prohibitionist movement has already run for the hills and left the microphone up for grabs.

Bonus points for calling out LEAP by name and accusing them of "fear-mongering." How ironic that a group of police officers who offer solutions to the crime and violence of the drug trade are accused of trying to scare everyone. Rather obviously, their message is one of hope for better policies and a brighter future. It is those who oppose legalization that rely on tactics of desperate intimidation. Doubt and fear are the essential threads that bind together every argument ever voiced in defense of marijuana prohibition. It should come as no surprise therefore that the polls tip further in our favor each time the opposition presents its case to the public.

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Scott. Ron Allen is right.The

Scott. Ron Allen is right.

The proponents of Prop 19 are saying that if you legalize pot, it will relieve many Blacks from being arrested for pot charges because they are more likely to be arrested and assumed guilty for pot charges than non-Blacks.

What the Bishop is saying is that, Prop 19 will not make a difference. It does not stop the disparity of arrests.

If 59% of Blacks are arrested for crack cocaine, does that mean crack cocaine should be legalized so that Black are not arrested? 

 

See "Legalizing Marijuana is a civil rights issue." at http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-07/politics/naacp.marijuana.support_1_international-faith-based-coalition-bishop-ron-allen-marijuana-laws?_s=PM:POLITICS

So in other words, Allen is saying the legalizing marijuana is not a civil rights issue.

Ok.

Yes, I do understand the point he was trying to make. I just think he took a strange path through the argument.

As for your question, "If 59% of Blacks are arrested for crack cocaine, does that mean crack cocaine should be legalized so that Black are not arrested?" I wouldn't know where to begin. If 59% of African Americans were arrested for crack, that would represent a massive systemic conspiracy to criminalize the black community through drug law enforcement. I mean, that's more than half the black people in the country. Maybe you meant to phrase the question differently? See, this brings us back to my original point about the importance of being careful when invoking statistics to make an argument.

Anyhow, the question of whether marijuana policy is a civil rights issue shouldn't even be up for debate. These laws were designed by deranged racists who claimed that marijuana would cause African American men to rape white women. That was the original argument for banning marijuana and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that a law born out of racism would continue to produce racially disparate outcomes.

Your question is ill worded

but the answer is YES! legalize personal use of ALL drugs.  It is a matter of liberty and individual freedom, there is no legitimate Constitutional authority for the government to be involved in the personal lifestyle decisions of the citizenry, unless and until some person violates the unalienable rights of another thru violence, property crime, or fraud.

Fact:  Most drug arrests are

Fact:  Most drug arrests are for Marijuana possession

Fact:  The illegality of Marijuana and other drugs is the biggest excuse cops have to randomly stop anyone including blacks

Fact:  Legalizing drugs will drastically reduce the total number of arrests because it will reduce crime drastically.

Fact:  Fewer arrests overall mean fewer arrests of black people.

Fact:  Legalizing Marijuana and other drugs will not end bigotry and profiling but it will drastically reduce the opportunities for cops to practice bigotry and profiling.  At least if they're accusing you of a violent crime they have to produce a victim.

 

Fact:  Bishop Allen is wrong and anyone who agrees with him is wrong.

Legalization of drugs will do

Legalization of drugs will do next to nothing to reduce crime.

Fact: Dispensaries will sell a very easily grown plant for fairly good price plus tax.

Fact: Drug trade is a highly lucrative criminal activity.

For as long as the opportunity to make shady profit exists, the people who want to make a shady profit will go after it. Which means the same shootings, beat downs, threats, etc.  to take supply from the people that grow it and sell it for personal gain. Because the people that use pot probably don't want to spend the effort to grow it, and also probably want to spend as little as possible getting it. So,

Fact: Legalization of marijuana does not negate the problem, it just shifts the problem around.

Civil Rights: If you're not up on the virulently racist origins

of cannabis prohibition, just google the words Harry Anslinger racism and get ready to read some vile stuff.

Calling it marijuana, the Mexican name for it, instead of its traditional and medicinal name of cannabis, was part of the  program for demonizing this miraculous medicinal herb/relatively very safe recreational buzz. 

Wow

His pained attempt at using statistics to support his point is awkward to watch.  He gets them wrong too.  It's that two thirds of crack users are white or Hispanic, but 82% of crack arrestees are black.  

Unstable ?

Does the Bishop seem a little unstable? I understand he is former crack addict. Marijuana is NOT crack. I have never used crack or powder cocaine. And I was a teenager in the 70's. This attack on marijuana is getting more ridiculous everyday. And I still don't know why the opposition thinks kids can get MJ easier if it is legalized. Do they think its not widely available now?

Does Bishop Ron Allen Have a Criminal Record?

Bishop Allen readily admits to having been a crack addict, but was his addiction curtailed by being arrested, or did he just bottom out and quit using crack of his own volition?

If Bishop Allen’s choice was to quit crack, if he did so without any external coercion by a judicial system, then he has no business promoting the use of criminalization as a means of limiting addictions.  In that context, if it represents what really happened, then Ron Allen aptly demonstrates that it’s possible for others to quit crack for personal reasons, and not solely because of the largely ineffective legalistic traps set by a racist and bigoted society.

If Ron Allen were burdened with a criminal record, it follows that he should be less likely to invoke the same ill fate on his fellow black brothers and sisters.  If not, one other possibility might be that Ron Allen hates his own race, something for example that a few people have noted in order to explain the behavior and legal decisions of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

Giordano

Steve Fox has some discipline

I would gotten the chuckles if I were in his shoes.  No caricature of the unhinged prohibitionist on Comedy Central could match up to Bishop Brown in that video.

God this is hilarious

Is that man reading crib notes off his hand at 2:36?

Fox 'News' wants to confuse you, on purpose

Fox Newscasters are kinda...dumb.  They're like poodles with a 3-second attention span.  But this technique really works.  Fox could have selected a better-matched 'opponent' to debate with Mr. Fox.  Instead, they chose Bishop Allen.  It's immediately obvious he has his own agenda (and I'm not doubting what he says is true).  So the viewer becomes more and more confused as she/he listens to Allen.  It's on purpose, I think.

Funny and sad

Moonrider said: “but the answer is YES! legalize personal use of ALL drugs. It is a matter of liberty and individual freedom, there is no legitimate Constitutional authority for the government to be involved in the personal lifestyle decisions of the citizenry, unless and until some person violates the unalienable rights of another thru violence, property crime, or fraud.”

That’s exactly right. No victim, no crime. The DEA and countless law enforcement agencies have been wiping their backsides with the constitution for decades, what ever happened to the inalienable right to pursue happiness?

It makes me so mad how many lives have been destroyed and how many millions and billions of dollars have been wasted to enforce laws that never should have existed in the first place.

It would cost a fraction of the amount we’re spending on enforcing the laws and incarcerating people than to inform and educate people of their adverse effects.

It’s sad and unfortunate that it (the war on drugs) was initiated on racism and bigotry, but it shouldn’t have anything to do with race, it should be about what’s moral and fair regardless of someones heritage.

And the statement should have been: Of all arrests for crack cocaine 59% are Black. But anyone with two brain cells to rub together already knew that.

-dog

No victim, no crime?

No victim, no crime? You do realize that there's a drug trade, right? And that they acquire their product through less than helpful means?

Because the pursuit of happiness does apply to everyone. Arrests aren't the only thing screwing people over. The peeps distributing the substances cause damage too. Even if the laws weren't there, there would be opportunities for the shadier work to gain profit from drugs, and they wouldn't go about it with just smiles and handshakes. Never mind the fact that drugs reduce the ability of the brain to produce its own "happiness."

 

Also, people ARE getting educated on the adverse effect of drugs. They do them anyway. (Surprise?)

i don't have much time now

i don't have much time now and i haven't read any of the previous coments yet. a few quick points:

 

i don't know which fox news interview u're seeing scott. it's obvious to me he's projecting anti-marijuana bias in the tone of his voice/questions. in this 'fair and balanced' debate, it's clearly 2 against one.

 

the other observation: so the rev. is a bonehead. so are a lot of people, and most of them can relate to the rev. better than the intelligent, rational, well informed viewpoint.

 

finally, what 'intellectual wing' of the prohib party are u referring to? dogmatism is inherently anti-ontellectual. it's a sad commentary on us if people like bill bennett are perceived as 'intellectual'.

"No victim, no crime, You realize there is a drug trade, right?"

Yes, I've noticed, the question is why there is a huge blood drenched criminal drug trade in cannabis but a negligible one in alcohol. I'm not going to tell you the reason why, you can figure it out yourself if you half try. Speaking of being realistic, you do realize that alcohol is a mega-killer and physical maimer and cannabis related deaths and serious physical injuries are rare, right?

 If we legalize weed, there'll be a lot less victims, and a lot less crime. And we'll be letting freedom ring, not just the freedom to use alcohol in spite of all the catastrophes it causes. 

Quite the absence of high profile opponents of Prop 19

It ain't us they're afraid of, it must be our arguments

Bishop is an idiot and prop 19 is california's salvation

Bishop allen is an ignorant moron and has done more good for prop 19 then harmed it some reasons it should pass that were poorly listed

 

1. reduce population of prisons and jails for people holding on to a plant whats next roses???

2. People estimate if 19 passes it would net around 1b for the state from taxes this is based from seizures arrests and finds.....considering the average if you know 1 person that smokes there are 10 you dont know about <20+ up here in humboldt county> locals and people in the growing and seed industries think california <based on a 10% tax> will net about 4-50B per year from taxes this money goes into public works public safety and SCHOOLS yes thats right put up with extra stoners and your kids get a GOOD education finaly

3. according to Dep of justice , NORML and many other groups medical patients from prop 215 so far have never been found to be in violation of the laws nor  have they commited any crimes since its passing <cept for the federal no pot laws>

4. Like hemp ,Marijuana was banned for no good reason it is a natural occuring plant in nature as said before whats next roses? grass<lawns> oh how about chamomile for teas...heck TEA is a plant ban that next too ?

5. the entire government's stand of "pot is bad for you" was based on forcing monkeys to inhale 60joints worth of smoke within a SMALL time frame and was tested over 6 months on a daily basis and found brain damage......if you sucked down a MALL sized cloud of smoke and fire every day for 6 months youd have brain damage too

6. absolutely NO professional or medical report currently exists that is a real test of the effects of cannibis as harmful other then the fact your inhaling smoke ...NOT A SINGLE CREDIBLE REPORT EXISTS...according to Dr. grimspoon <a HARVARD MED professor emeritus who spent 40 years trying to prove pot was bad> along with a TON of other big name doctors including the american medical journal and the american medical association who have also agreed on this matter

7. Also in financial Canada has about 7billion in pot sales of "bc bud" but up to 85% of it comes south so 35Bill worth of it comes down tax that 10% thats 3.5billion into budgets for important things

8. Cannabis has no addictive properties it is habit forming again NOTHING PROVEN that pot is addictive

Watch "The union" the unionmovie.com i think is the site ghuys who made it started anti pot

 

9. Bishop Ron allen is a ignorant fool while living most of my life in santa clara I have met the man more then once i have heard his talks heard him preach....the man i swear has dementia or just a case of the "my idea is right no matter how wrong" but keep him talking every time he does more people come over to prop 19 side

10. Prop 19 ill fix california's budget problems in part or completely depending on how the whiney greedy growers evolve I personaly see Humboldt county becoming a Napa valley but with a different crop bringing tourists I mean a friend told me it best "Why would i pay 3500 dollars for a pound of pain med pot in oregon when I could drive 50 miles or so find a little stand and stay in cali enjoy and come back" just took 2 criminal acts out of the equation buying and transporting.... that could be mind you 2 people arrested 2 weeks in jail <roughly it varies> at around what 100 bucks a day per person 1400 dollars saved from oregon's budget ??? Financialy Prop 19 is win win win win for california

 

 

In closing ill just say this

If it means I have to deal with extra stoners walking around smellin like plants so that my children recieve a good education wich was only available to RICH people and the way upper class then by all means LEGALIZE IT SMOKE IT AND BRING IT

 

 

Besides when was the last time a pothead went home and beat his wife and children due to the effects of pot ? guess what nationwide its never happened or reported

 

 

and as for legalizing toxic drugs that require killing off its makers slowly and painfully to get a high ? those posters have the same mentality as Bishop "Moron" allen

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