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Ron Paul Murders Stephen Baldwin in Marijuana Legalization Debate

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The Larry King producers made a good pick setting up Stephen "The Straw Man" Baldwin against Ron "The Bulldozer" Paul!
Mr. Baldwin had nothing substantial to say and spent most of the debate looking like a deer in the headlights. I am glad Ron Paul is able to put all these points very matter-of-factly so anyone has the chance to see the light.


wanna see a first class hypocrite? just look at sucker baldwin. crazy people do not know that they are crazy. hollywood is built on the foundation of fantasy. what do you expect?

Ron Paul Kicked Ass!

Even Baldwin seemed to acknowledge he had run out of any compelling arguments and was glad to let Ron talk.

Wasn't Stephen Baldwin a party animal just a few years ago?

It's weird seeing this guy representing the drug warriors and 700 Club crowd.

The Main Point From This Debate is

There is a breathalyzer test for alcohol but who is testing for someone being high when getting pulled over by a cop? As a former Manager on the job the most common problem with employees being injured on the job was drug related...yes marijuana. If you legalize that mess you are only going to make matters worse because you're leaving it up to the individual to know their limit (if there is one) just like alcohol. I don't trust you guys that smoke the stuff to know your limit, just like I don't trust alcoholics. What prevents employees from passing a pre-employment physicals....drugs? Alcoholics can easily get hired because clinics aren't testing for that on pre-employment tests. Marijuana legalized....NO way!!!!

Individuals injuring

Individuals injuring themselves/others while on the job because of drugs and/or alcohol is beside the point! When someone uses drugs or alcohol while doing a potentially risky or dangerous job they should be dealt with, I agree with you. But what you can't seem to get through your thick head is that this prohibition regime does nothing except corrupt law enforcement, enrich criminals and breed inner city drug related violence. And it is because of people like you a lot of responsible marijuana users are so stigmatized. Alcohol, which is a physically addictive drug (unlike marijuana) is responsibly enjoyed by alot of people. Now do you justify locking up a 76 year old lady who enjoys a glass of wine with her Sunday dinner because some people with addictive personalities become alcoholics? How you must love the nanny state! Cigarettes are legal. Did tobacco use go up over the years? It's such a horribly addictive substance... Use must have gone up! But use have gone down!!! I mean cigs have become so demonized in recent times - without ever really being in the hands of black market thugs. Kindly pull your head out of your ass. Marijuana should be legal.

Nothing New… Yawn.

you're leaving it up to the individual to know their limit
What part of life is NOT like this already?!! (And your grammar is as wrong as your logic.)

I was an HR Manager that saw drug use to be a leading cause of manufacturing accidents.
I don't believe you for one minute. You have such an agenda that I can sense your lies. Easily the biggest cause for manufacturing accidents is the pressure to produce more faster! Using peer pressure to see who can squeeze out X widgets faster than the others.

You also seem to be overlooking the fact that manufacturing is smaller than infinitesimal in the US anyway.

You are also showing your gross ignorance by implying all marijuana users will show up to work high.

I've met people like you who think that, "if we could only make some examples of them, by beating them in public, or executing them in public, then we'd have this problem licked!" Well that was the motivation behind lynching blacks and IT'S EVIL!

Hate and fear are incited by drugs many times!
Um, no. Ignorance like what you are espousing does. You obviously have forgotten another dumb stereotype put forth by the fear-mongering prohibitionists, that marijuana turns men into wimpy pansies who love their enemies and push flowers down the barrels of macho men who carry guns.

You've got good people that start out experimenting with drugs but end up stealing or committing other crimes.
Ho hum, more blathering lies from liars based on associative logic.

Look all the hollywood success stories that end up broke due to drug abuse.
Your shallow analysis is obviously wrong since you are implying
1) it was marijuana that caused it
2) It was only due to "drugs"

If your shallow associative reasoning was actually correct, then EVERYONE who used marijuana would end up like the worst of the saddest stories you are referring to. But the fact is that it's not marijuana that causes these problems, it's a person's goofed up perspective.

There is no way you can convince me that it should be legalized and I should try the stuff when I get stressed.
Why bang our heads against a brick wall?

Here is where people like you and people like me differ. I am not going to force you to try it.

We're just trying to get bullies like you out of our way, and out of the way of sick people's medicine. Matt 23:13

The end of your pack of lies and bullying authority is coming soon.

Just...Well done!

Good analysis!

nothing new....yawn

Bravo.Thank you.

My comment to you

I will say this differently...the leading cause of the most expensive and costly manufacturing accidents was drug use. This I know for sure.

I am not saying all marijuana users show up to work high. I am saying it is hard to detect if someone is high at first glance. You have to watch their behavior.

It is not a lie that someone desperate for drugs will steal. I have family members just like I'm sure you do too that you've personally witnessed steal for drugs. They are always asking for $2, $5 and so on. If you don't give it to them they will steal it from you.

So Rush Limbaugh had a goofed up perspective when he was hooked on pain killers, how about Eva Mendes and cocaine, how about Lindsay lohan, how about Britney Spears, how about Robert Downey Jr, Mickey Rourke, and so on. Marijuana I guarantee you was somewhere in their lives before or while they were doing coke.

Legalize will be just like pornography.....addictive and destructive. There is nothing good that will come from pot.

Throwing the baby out with the bath water

"Legalize will be just like pornography.....addictive and destructive. There is nothing good that will come from pot."

So you believe surrendering the alcohol, tobacco, porn and marijuana markets to the Mexican cocaine cartels will reduce costly accidents and addiction?

Nothing good? You must not be reading or listening!

The only error I note in referring to the high profile celebrities is that they are supposedly having problems with cocaine, not cannabis, which is what we were discussing. Even sadder is the fact that all of those people have the money to jump in and out of rehab. Unlike most normal people of the world. But, treatment is what they need. Not, incarceration for medical problems. But, that is a different discussion than this thread.

And your attempt to point to them, in a feeble attempt to make it another "gateway " example, is not valid. It is anecdotal and of no statistical significance. Just like the other examples you have given.

Rush Limbaugh was, allegedly, suffering from pain. It is questionable ,whether or not he was an addict, at all! Addicts don't continue to work, like he was. In fact addiction is defined as the compulsive, uncontrollable urge that leads to the use of something that adversely affects your life, physically and/or mentally and socially. Sex addiction, gambling addiction, drug addiction. They lose their jobs, and put their health in danger, because they can't control the use.

Now, that could be said of the celebrities you mentioned that seem to be on the self destruct mode. Possibly due to ongoing mental problems, brought on by their celebrity status. They need treatment, not jail. Would it surprise you know that most addicts have underlying mental problems?

And, have you not heard of the scientific discoveries being made, about more possible uses of cannabis, as a medicine, in the news?

Celebs with money

If celebs can easily jump in and out of drugs then it makes more sense why it should stay illegal because the average Joe cannot afford rehab and becomes a burden on society. You've got to come better than that!

You can be addicted to drugs and do your job at the same time. You can be addicted to a lot of things and it's an addiction. Sex addiction, gambling addiction, and drug addiction are ADDICTIONS that cause wives to leave their husbands and vice-versa. They are embarrassing. Tell your kid you are addicted to drugs, gambling, and sex and see what he thinks about you. You wouldn't want your child to know you were addicted.

Rush said he was addicted.

What Are You Addicted To?

Please tell us what your addictions are.

(Beyond the obvious ones we can all see, based on your posts.)

Thank you god!

All knowing and all powerful, you proclaim you know Rush was addicted. Maybe that is what he was told. Maybe he really was. I am not clairvoyant, myself. But, knowing chronic pain, I know it is possible, not to be addicted, when you are just treating severe pain.

And yes, would you not say that losing your family was a social problem caused by the addictions you mentioned!? I repeat, as I said above, the addicts continue no matter what harm it brings to their lives. Alienating and embarrassing your kids is social harm a well. It is a family problem, then! Social harms are a result of the addiction, as well. No harm from your compulsion, no addiction. Addicted to religion? Impossible!

I am saying it is hard to

I am saying it is hard to detect if someone is high at first glance. You have to watch their behavior.
This makes me laugh. If you can't detect that a person is “high” then why the heck do you have such a hang-up about it! I've been to the store and dealt with "high" clerks, but as long as they scan my stuff and count my change back correctly, I'm not about to be mean to them.

Surely it sounds like your attitude is based more on your desire to crush others with your will, than be just another human on this planet in a live-and-let-live relationship.

It is not a lie that someone desperate for drugs will steal.
Groan; so does the guy looking to feed his family. So what? This is more associative reasoning. Using marijuana does not inspire/incite/predispose/incentivize/blah blah blah thievery, or ANY crime.

If you really were interested in preventing thefts/crimes from drug addicts:

  1. You would stop wasting your time and resources hunting down marijuana users and legalize it, take it completely off your agenda and %@*#!^ list.
  2. You would do the tiny amount of homework needed to learn that X% of the "hard" drug users ARE NOT skulking thieves/murders/pedophiles, and they have some inner mechanism that regulates their use.
  3. There is a portion of "hard"drug users who ARE addicted, recognize it, and want help, not imprisonment. But are scared of MUCH TOO HEAVY HANDED responses to their admitting their drug use.
  4. There is a portion of "hard" drug users who ARE addicted, have bad attitudes, and don't mind one bit the thought of stealing, murder, and societal mayhem.

The last group is the portion the cops should be focused on. And I feel strongly it WAS NOT "drugs" that caused them to be that way.

I have family members just like I'm sure you do too that you've personally witnessed steal for drugs.
Nope. Not me, not from me. Not only that, but you logic is still illogical since many folks would just grow their own, no stealing needed.

With regard to celebrities' use…
Many people do consider Rush Limbaugh to have a VERY SERIOUSLY goofed up perspective. Is that news to you? Frankly I am not even sure of who some of those people are. But I am certain that at least Linday and Britney definitely grew up with a distorted sense of reality that DID NOT come from drugs.

Being placed on a pedestal and worshipped is probably much more destructive than a cocaine addiction. But I am not a psychiatrist and am speaking from a spiritual perspective.

Marijuana I guarantee you was somewhere in their lives before or while they were doing coke.
More "guilt by association" logic. Guess what? They also attended acting lessons. They are probably known inhabitants of the furthest leftist state in the union (not counting Alaska and Hawaii).

Legalize will be just like pornography.....addictive and destructive. There is nothing good that will come from pot.
Snore. More associative reasoning. I can't wait for these false prophecies to die. Did you know that more than a few Bible thumpers had many false prophecies about prohibition before it was implemented?

You know what seems to be more addictive and destructive than any amount of drugs? The notion some people have that they are our overlords and should dictate to the rest of us how to live our lives.

You really should enlighten yourself (and others) to the myriad good uses that have a longer history than the hatred against marijuana. I suggest you take a look at Jack Herer's web site. He has done extensive research and generously collected it on his web site for the world to read, for free. You should buy his book, but you can read it here:

Here is a link for you with PhD-level analysis/synapsis of the slander known as the Gateway Theory:

Take some time and read that book too. They have generously put their whole book online.

You are weak and emotionally damaged

The reason you don't want drugs to be legal has little to do with their damaging effects and mostly to do with you feeling victimized and emotionally hurt by your weak pathetic family member.

You want to stop yourself and other people from feeling that pain and in your deluded mind you came to the conclusion that drugs should be illegal. Ironically it was the illegality that likely led to stealing in the first place. Most people do not steal or beg for booze except the homeless.

You are as pathetic as your family member. You would seek to control what everyone can do in the hopes you don't feel emotionally hurt and victimized again. At least he only steals from family to use drugs in order not to feel.

I would pity you if you weren't trying to control me any everyone else out there like a tyrant.

I'm not trying to control you

you and I have differing opinions. That is all! You can do what you want. You're pathetic for having a love for pot! I don't have that passion. I don't need the stuff!

My point is your justification for smoking weed (which is really less to do with legalizing and more to do with the fact that you just like to smoke weed). That is your choice and it doesn't have to be anybody elses choice because you like it. Why legalize pot because you feel like others should feel the same way you do about it? We all like different things and I'm not going to encourage anybody to grow pot because I like it.

Like I said previously, if it's so good let your kids try it. You as the parent allow them to try it and put it on the kitchen table for them. You wouldn't do that! Why have an age limit on who can smoke weed? Let everybody enjoy pot. You don't agree with that because you know the stuff is not safe. If it's not safe for kids it's not safe for adults. I'm still here!!!!

"If it's not safe for kids

"If it's not safe for kids it's not safe for adults. I'm still here!!!!"

unfortunately, you are still here. ugh. by that same token, alcohol and tobacco should be illegal. There are plenty of things that are legal, not safe for kids or adults, yet people take part in them every day. driving, for one, regardless of one's sober state is dangerous anytime. motorcycles, guns, and fireworks are not safe for kids. Yet, plenty of responsible adults use all three every single day, without worry of some overbearing state taking their stuff away. what you said there makes absolutely no logical sense at all.

you say you don't want to control us, just what we can smoke or not, eh? Marijuana as a gateway drug is a tired, debunked and redebunked theory. I have used cannabis for a dozen years, at least, and never once got into harder stuff. I'm not saying it wasnt ever around (being it's a schedule 1 substance, dealers tend to have other schedule 1's around too.. another self-fulfilling aspect of the gateway theory- resulting simply from the illegal status of cannabis), but I never "stepped up" to anything harder. I have this silly thing called will power, believe it or not.
Your problem is that you do not trust people on it, because you have been indoctrinated with drug war shrill. i won't change your mind, i know, but i at least want to let you know. keep swallowing that spoonfed propaganda, and allow it to filter your worldview. We'll keep pushing for change, thanks.

Nobody has taught me

I see first hand by watching people. It's common sense. Like I said, give the stuff to your child if you like it soo much. It can't hurt can it?

You are flat out wrong

I believe in the principle of "your body, your property, your choice".

That, like Ron Paul, is my primary reason for wanting to legalize all drugs, as well as prostitution, assisted suicide, and any other consensual crimes.

Legalize pot and all other drugs because it is immoral and unethical to throw people in jail for consensual crimes. Crack offenders routinely end up in prison for 10 years or more. How is that anything close to justice? It is barbaric. It is murder, a piece at a time. Jail exists to keep dangerous people away from society, not lock up people who have hobbies you don't like.

How can you be so blind to the suffering of others? Oh that's right, cause you are worried about your own suffering and that family member who would steal from you.

Like I said, you are weak, its unfortunate that you don't even realize what pushed you to have this position on drugs.

Your kids

I bet you a million dollars right now....if you saw someone give your teenager a joint you would be ready to shoot them without thinking. My question is why? Like I said previously, if you think marijuana should be legalized, legalize it in the privacy of your home by converting your entire family into pot users. If you feel guilty about that then it's wrong.

Don't let a stranger introduce your teenager to pot, you do it parent. See...legalizing pot is your issue and not anyone elses. Why try and legalize pot nationwide when you can't get your wife and kids to sit down on the couch with you and smoke the stuff? Well, you said you smoke the stuff in the privacy of your own home. Let your teenager smoke it with you. Convert him before you try to convert me. You know just like I do that somebody is going to offer them a smoke, I say you be the first to offer your child a joint.

Tell them it's ok to express yourself. It's fun! If you get a little stressed it's ok to smoke marijuana. Here take some! Not one of you joint smokers that are writing to me has taken the initiative to do this. Man up and do this!!! Stop hiding at work, or hanging around your boys, smoking pot....tell your kids you smoke pot and see what they think of you. Man up!!!!

Let your kid go with you when you go purchase the stuff in some dark alley!!! Do you guys and gals do that?

I'm blind and I'm weak.....

Your Raging Ignorance Befuddles You

I'm blind and I'm weak.....
This we know. Many of us are pulling for you, that you come to your senses.

I bet you a million dollars right now....if you saw someone give your teenager a joint you would be ready to shoot them without thinking.
Again, clear evidence that not only are you desperate to have everyone think like you, you are only comfortable in a world where people think like you. Get your mind off of the killing thing!

I will continue to point out poor logic:
• Nearly everyone here will say you have just pointed out one of the biggest reasons to legalize it and regulate it, street dealers can adulterate the product. If it's sold through licensed businesses, quality can be reasonably assured.
• Want something to be "uncool?" Let adults do it!

Your comments are now greatly reaching into spam territory, so this is probably one of the last comments I'll add.

You know, there is a saying, "Don't beat the servants." You should look it up and also what happens to those who do.

You asked for it . . .

I smoke pot with not only my mom and dad, but my brother and sister and husband, and we have all smoked pot together in the same room, and then had a fabulous time playing board games and telling stories. I have also done shrooms with my brother and sister, shrooms that my mother bought for her youngest daughter for her seventeenth birthday. Mom also gave my siblings and I hand blown glass marijuana pipes for christmas one year. We also happen to be one of the most intelligent and fascinating group of people you could ever have the pleasure to meet, according to everyone who knows us. So take that, Mr. Holier than Thou!

Good families

I'm not saying that everyone has to do the same, but I personally know similar families, with dad and mom who share cannabis (and even psychedelics) with their sons...Good and smart people who haven't the usual problems of (hard) drugs abuse that other traditional families well know. Say the truth about drugs, talk openly about them with your sons and, in case, teach them to choose the 'good' ones (I think that cannabis and entheogens are safe drugs if used properly...)


would much rather have seen my children, all of whom graduated with honors from good colleges, use cannabis rather than alcohol or tobacco. would rather have seen them use cannabis rather than ritalin or opoid pain meds. would rather have seen them use cannabis for nausea rather than phenergan.would rather have seen my daughters use cannabis rather than suffer from some eating disorder or another.would rather have seen my child use cannabis for dealing with the depression born of having to function in your authoritarian culture rather than living on lexapro or some other such wierd chemical brain numb.would rather see my children use an ancient medicine than todays bigpharm noncures and pay bigbucks for the privilage.
your opinion is awash in idiotic nonfact and is the product of corporate misinformation designed to make you a good lil consumer. you stepped right up to the plate. please disappear. keep your wrong headed oppression to your self.

and please remember is insane to imprision a human being for having a fuggin FLOWER!!! (even if the intention feel better)

Graduated with Honors But Hooked On Pot

What an example??? That is nothing to brag about! Again, if parents would sit down with their kids and really educate them about all the pitfalls in life then maybe kids wouldn't want to choose drugs or alcohol and maybe the government would back off. This seems to be another parent that is and was scared to talk to their kids about issues. I guess your hatred for our authoritarian PARENTAL legal system turns you off.

If you don't want your kids to do drugs and alcohol do your job PARENT and teach. Stop blaming society and start blaming it on your kids decision to hang around the wrong crowd. It was their scum bag friends who they like that gave them their first lesson in drugs and alcohol. Where were you? What were you doing while this was going on? Hiding in the bathroom smoking your stank pot stick! Do your job or do you need the government to tell you that training your kids is your job?

Don't you dare blame our legal system for the corruption of drugs and alcohol. Intelligent people make the decision everyday to drive drunk and end up killing an innocent bystander. Is that the government's fault? It's the parents fault! Stop passing the buck! If alcohol is a problem in your family or if prescription drugs such as ritalin is a problem, no one is pinning you to the floor coercing you to use the stuff. Just tell the doctor no thanks!

The government is not inside your home watching how you deal with your kids. If they were then I would say you guys have a point but you don't. Train your kids!!!! Nobody can teach right from wrong better than you. If you want your kids to smoke pot which only one person has come forth and said yes to....Grandma...your new leader, then go for it. You can't do it. You have a conscience. Grandma is just a fool, plain and simple.

The problem with this entire blog is you guys think everyone should try pot! Just tell the truth. You think everyone should try pot when we can't cope or when we want to spice things up. That is your motivation. Don't give me you are concerned about all the violence because of drugs so if we legalize it the violence will go away.

Who cares that Columbians or whoever are dying everyday because they want to make a living off of selling illegal drugs? That is their choice! It has nothing to do with me nor you. That's why we have border patrol. They get paid to deal with that. If you were border patrol agents, then you have an argument. You guys aren't border patrol agents, you're educated (so you say) bloggers. What is that?

Answer me....when was the last time someone got shot on your front lawn because of drugs? It hasn't happened. So, why are you so worried about the violence? If other countries want to battle over drugs in their country, that is their business. Let them fight.

Some Headway

you and I have differing opinions.
Finally, I feel like we're making some headway.

You can do what you want.
Not really. Folks who want to use marijuana for medicine, worship, or just plain fun, can't. Why? Because of bullies (and that's probably being much too politically correct).

My point is your justification for smoking weed (which is really less to do with legalizing and more to do with the fact that you just like to smoke weed). ... Why legalize pot because you feel like others should feel the same way you do about it?
Here you go again… Many prohibitions have set themselves up as god over the rest of humanity. They think they know our motives. They think they know our feelings. They think they know our thoughts.

Why are you so frustrated that others have thoughts/feelings/wishes that are different from yours? Don't you realize that monocultures die out from the smallest of threats?

If it's not safe for kids it's not safe for adults.
This is such a bogus idea. Your logic is tragically spiraling downwards. Maybe you haven't noticed but kids are not adults. Your fears are ringing loud and clear. Please consider going to a priest for an exorcism. The world is spiraling towards disaster due to people who are busy pushing their wills on others, and in this boat you sit with the drug pushers themselves.

I'm still here!!!!
This is arguably not true. You are obviously somewhere else!

You, my fellow, are an

You, my fellow, are an idiot. And I'm sorry for that. There are a multitude of things existing that are fine for an adult but not for a child. What you are saying completely comes across as a child saying,' So, there! Nah! '. Would you please take a breath, and try not to focus so hard on being right. Listen, and you just might learn something, or is that what you are afraid of? People are pathetic for wanting to make informed decisions, rather than follow the herd, such as yourself? I don't have to justify wanting to smoke pot, or drink a beer or sky dive...not to you, or anyone else. And that is what legalization of marijuana is about, being allowed the freedom to make an informed choice. Every single part of the cannabis plant is usable, have you never heard of Hemp? Which, by the way, has a nil THC value and is unsmokable. I am for the Legalization of Marijuana for a multitude of reasons, the least of which is the enjoyment of smoking it. And, after reading some of these entries, it is completely clear that this is not about differing opinions, it is about your need to be 'right'. With an attitude like that, all you are is left.'If it's so good, let your kids try it', you are ridiculous and petulant. Are we to infer from this, and other remarks of this substance, that you have introduced your children to the joys of sex? Or do you not believe there are joys in sex? I use this example, not to be crass, but to illuminate my point that there are many things, that while acceptable for adults, should not be considered acceptable for children.

Another thing

If pot is sooo good and beneficial to mankind I dare any of you pot users to do this: Listen to me.....try this at home.

I want you to introduce your kids to pot. Don't let a perfect stranger in college or one of their high school friends be the first to introduce them to weed. You start him off on weed. I dare you to do that!!!!

You parents should take your convictions and enlist your entire family in the army of pot usage. When you talk to your kid about the birds and the bees be sure to have a joint in hand to let him try it, compliments of good ole Mom and Dad!!!!!

I aint going anywhere. I found my passion in life to dispel this ignorance about legalizing mad buddha!!!!!


i'm done feeding you, troll. the mess about "give it to your kids if u think it's so good" is a loaded statement. You're not here to listen to anyone, just preach and provoke. well, if you came looking for logical debate, that would be one thing. but now, u are just trolling. this will be my final response to you, because i'm not one to blast my forehead against a brick wall for too long. oh well, it was fun while it lasted. i'm not telling you to leave, for the record. i wish you would research everything on this site, and maybe then you will enlighten yourself. starting arguments in the comment section is not gonna do that for you, as you've made so very clear. good day.

The children, the children...

What message does it send to the children when stealing a CD or some lipstick from a store carries less of a penalty than using a drug?

That hurting others is a worse offense than hurting yourself?

Spare me your BS on the children.

It is natural for parents to not want their kids to do anything potentially harmful as children or as adults. How many parents out there freak out when their kids start having sex?

Our convictions are about freedom, free choice. Yes, many think pot is not harmful, government tells us it is incredibly dangerous, throws users and sellers in jail yet we hear and read all the time that people like Carl Sagan who wrote Contact and was a renowned astronomer used pot. As does Peter Lewis, CEO of Progressive who was caught with a bunch of it by customs in New Zealand. The list goes on and on of successful people who used the drug or continue to use it.

You say you don't want to control anyone yet your support for the illegality of drugs does exactly that. Putting people in jail, fining them, those are methods of control. How can you not see that?

Again...Tell Your Kids You Are A Pot Head

and see what they think of you. If you can blog about legalizing pot then I can stop by and give you my opinion. Let your kids read this and show them your replies.

Talk to your kids about pot. I bet you don't do that. Your so called freedom and bondage. It's not freedom for all, it's selfishness because you want something that not everyone wants. It's selfish.

I know you didn't say pot was potentially harmful...did I read that correctly???

You couldn't be more wrong

First, I don't have any kids.
Second, I haven't smoked pot in a long long time.
Third, yes pot is potentially harmful. Many pot users will say it is not, while I do not believe them, maybe it is true for them. It does have some benefits.

For me it cut down on my productivity when working on php code for my online store I was working on.

How can you possibly say I don't support freedom for all? You did not address any of the points I have made about freedom of choice.

"It's not freedom for all, it's selfishness because you want something that not everyone wants." - It is exactly freedom far all, I want to eliminate ALL consensual crime laws. There are plenty of consensual crime laws that I have never and will never violate but they should still not be laws.

Everyone is selfish. You yourself are selfish. You want to control everyone else denying them the right to legally consume substances you don't like because you don't like those substances. That is every bit as selfish as wanting something to be legal so the person can enjoy it legally without threat of prison.

When/If I do have children I will tell them not to use drugs at the least before 18 because studies have shown it can seriously affect the development of the brain in young people. But I will be honest with them about all drugs. They are not all the same, some are more harmful than others. Some can be used in moderation without ill effect. Being a burnout is nothing to be proud of and I would never advocate it. There is a difference between use and abuse.

I know why I oppose consensual crimes on a more emotional more basic level, it goes back to my forced infant circumcision. That choice was taken away from me. Some of the most sensitive nerve endings on the entire male human body were cut off without a dire medical reason. That mutilation shaped my thoughts forever.

This is likely why I support so strongly freedom of choice, "your body, your property, your choice". Infant circumcision, drug use, prostitution, assisted suicide, its all the same, it's an issue of "your body, your property, your choice".

I will firmly instill that principle into any child I ever have, it is far more important to me than pot.

Seriously consider seeing a therapist (I see one myself) and bring up your stance on drugs and willingness to control everyone by making it illegal. I think this goes much deeper than you let on, back to that family trauma and your desire to avoid the pain you felt then.

Thank you

"Third, yes pot is potentially harmful. Many pot users will say it is not, while I do not believe them, maybe it is true for them. It does have some benefits.
“For me it cut down on my productivity when working on php code for my online store I was working on."

Thank you for admitting this. This is all I'm saying, it is not a safe drug that you want to let loose on society because a few people can handle it.

"You want to control everyone else denying them the right to legally consume substances you don't like because you don't like those substances."

This is not true! You said it is potentially harmful so why would I want an entire society of people experimenting with it.

This is all I'm getting at. You just said enough for me.

You can't support consensual crime laws and free choice

You don't like drugs because they can be harmful. What I said was true, you want to keep drugs illegal because you don't like them.

You either support freedom or you don't. You either support legalizing drugs or you support controlling people. You can't have it both ways.

Not control people, control unnatural desires

I don't want to control you, I just wish you would get some self control and kick the addiction. It's unnatural. Just ask yourself a question, how would you feel if you saw your grandparents smoking weed? Picture that! Well, if it was legalized they can smoke the stuff too. They can smoke it right now.

If you can easily feel comfortable with your grandparents or parents smoking weed then go ahead and legalize it. And don't say one word when your grandparent falls in love with the stuff so much that they decide they want to try something a little stronger. Don't say one word when you see granddad smoke from a bong bigger than Michael Phelps was using. It's his right to be free and express himself and have joy and peace and happiness. It's the American way!

Tell it to Grandpa Yourself!

Next, youz should edumacate yourselves with this patent awarded by the US Patent Office to Department of Health and Human Services called “Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants.”

Here's a snippet:

Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties…

This makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prevention of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases.

The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia.

Smoke away old man! :-)


What about Abraham Lincoln? It is in his letters that he smoked "sweet" hemp! You are so misinformed. You have not learned the difference between addiction,dependence, abuse , and use! But, in your mind, everything is abuse. Face it, America lives on drugs. Just think what would happen if your favorite drug was taken from everyone. We did, when alcohol was prohibited. And, that worked out real well.

Many grannies have smoked cannabis and continue to do so. It has been in use for along time, don't you know?!

The only person that seems to need something stronger is you. Has your doctor changed you meds lately. Or, did you just decide you didn't need them any more?

America Does Not Live On Marijuana

We may live on prescription drugs but not all Americans live on pot!!!! That's your choice!

How many grannies do you know that actually smoke weed? I don't believe that statement.

Don't care if you believe the truth or not!

It is no problem to me! What do you want me to do ? Give you their names? Now, I am having trust issues like you! HA HA HA HA HA

Nothing is MORE natural

Than the desire to alter one's consciousness, even birds and animals do it.

Our brains have receptors for endocannabinoids, the plant cannabis is a perfect fit for those receptors, think that's an accident?

I am pro-choice in EVERYTHING!

You're an ADDICT, SON!!!!

Only addicts would say that....anyone that is pro-choice to everything has no back bone! Weaklin!!!!!! It's about time you checked into rehab!

I'm a 64 year old female

I am a libertarian, and I enjoy cannabis. My philosophy -- anything that is not fraudulent, that does no physical harm to another or another's property, and that doesn't impair another's ability to exercise his/her unalienable rights is a matter of personal choice and no business of anyone else. That is also the Constitutional Supreme Law of the land (in spite of how government, and people like you, have twisted it, over the years). What you advocate is patently unconstitutional and just plain morally wrong. There are other nations where you would probably be more comfortable living, perhaps Iran? Saudi Arabia? Cuba? America needs fewer people like you in it.

I'm pro-choice on EVERYTHING!

You’re Wrong

it is not a safe drug that you want to let loose on society because a few people can handle it.

You are wrong for so many reasons and in so many ways. MANY more than a few can handle it.

It IS NOT intrinsically unsafe/bad/harmful/wrong/evil/etc…

Just because people like you have beaten lies and shame on others to make them think it is, does not mean you are right.

It should be obvious by now that you are not going to change my opinion, and I can see I am not going to change yours. But like I said, the main difference between people like you and people like me is I am not going to force my beliefs on others.

What I am doing now is not forcing my beliefs on you, but protecting others from the likes of you. Many of us here thought we could reason with you, but you've proven otherwise.

Alcohol was in their lives before pot

I have used several different banned drugs over the years, some harder than others. Marijuana never ever, not once, led me to try the harder ones. Alcohol on the other hand....

The problem with prohibition

The problem with prohibition is that it's costing taxpayers billions of dollars every year. I don't know about you, but I don't want to pay for that b.s. anymore. People who drive or go to work high will do it whether or not it's illegal. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's going to increase use and for that matter irresponsible use. The point is, keeping it illegal is clearly causing more problems than it's solving. IF irresponsible use i.e. driving whilst high or going to work high, goes up as you are predicting as a result of legalization, then it would still be moot aside all the benefits which would inevitably accompany full legalization. Think about it.

Also, you should be aware that when your employees who were tested for pot after a work related injury it could have easily been the case that they smoked a week before the injury and weren't high during it AT ALL. THC stays in the blood stream for up to a month afterwards and drug tests don't really discern when a person smoked. That's another way these laws effect people in a negative way. My friend lost his job because of it. He smoked responsibly and when he hurt himself at work they drug tested him and surprise surprise they found THC in his system.... he was FIRED. He wasn't high during his shift at all, and you shouldn't conclude that either when your employees are tested after an injury.

again, THINK ABOUT IT. Use your reason and logic. PLEASE.


you have no idea what you are talking about because your probably one of those goody goody people that just thinks everything is wrong. Which when you say people that smoke marijuana don't know their limits or if there is a limit you haven't a clue. everyone that smokes marijuana has their limit because you can only get so high.
not all people smoke marijuana all day long. some people just smoke at night after a long days work full of stress. So, before you open your big mouth and let things just fly try smoking a little first.

I'm not a native speaker of

I'm not a native speaker of English and the audio is a little hard to understand.
Did he say that cannabis use usually leads to harder drugs? Did he say that legalisation would lead to more deaths caused by stoned drivers? Why are there still people who believe this?


You understood right! Too bad there are so many US citizens that don't seem to be as wise as you! They still keep spreading their, obviously ignorant, propaganda! The Gateway theory was debunked years ago!

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