ATF Says No Guns for Medical Marijuana Patients [FEATURE]
In a memo released last week, the US Department of Justice has notified federal firearms dealers that medical marijuana patients are "addicts" or "unlawful drug users" who cannot legally own weapons or ammunition. A medical marijuana registration card is proof enough to deny a weapons sale, the memo said. That has medical marijuana advocates crying foul, but national gun rights groups -- not so much. [Update: One national group now has responded; see the statement from Gun Owners of America in the text below.]
[image:1 align:right caption:true]The memo was authored by Arthur Herbert, Assistant Director for Enforcement Programs and Services for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms (ATF). Herbert said he wrote the memo after receiving "a number of inquiries about the use of marijuana for medical purposes, and its applicability to federal firearms laws."
Herbert cited the section of the federal criminal code that prohibits anyone who is "an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance" from possessing firearms. He reminded firearms dealers that they cannot legally sell guns to people they have reasonable cause to believe are illegal drug users or addicts and wrote that anyone presenting a medical marijuana registration card is providing reasonable cause for the dealer to believe they are illegal drug users or addicts.
Despite the Obama administration's 2009 Justice Department memo famously vowing not to go after patients and providers in compliance with state laws, the federal government has never wavered from its stance that, despite state medical marijuana laws, marijuana remains a Schedule I controlled substance.
"Any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether or not his or her state has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or is addicted to a controlled substance and is prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition," Herbert wrote.
While the federal gun law is not new, its restatement with specific reference to medical marijuana patients is, and that has advocates concerned.
"This is more evidence of the Obama administration's malfeasance with regard to medical marijuana," said Dale Gieringer, long-time director of California NORML. "They have a real penchant for over-regulation. We've seen it with the Treasury rules and warnings to banks, we've seen it with the continued arrests by other federal agencies. What's particularly disturbing is that this memo comes from a Justice Department that three years ago said it was going to respect state laws regarding medical marijuana."
"I don't think the feds are going to go after gun dealers selling to medical marijuana patients, but the important this is that if you use this medicine your constitutional rights are forfeit," said Morgan Fox, communications director for the Marijuana Policy Project. "This is just a travesty. Trying to treat medical marijuana patients like second-class citizens and stripping them of their rights as they are dealing with illness is just despicable."
"The possession of a firearm could make a medical marijuana patient vulnerable to additional charges and sentencing if convicted of a federal marijuana crime, and patients should be aware of that," said Kris Hermes, spokesman for Americans for Safe Access. "However, it is not the federal government's place to prevent medical marijuana patients from owning firearms. Following in the footsteps of the Justice Department, Veterans Affairs, and Housing and Urban Development, the ATF memo illustrates how yet another arm of the Obama Administration has demonized medical marijuana and the patient community. The ATF memo underscores the need for a comprehensive policy from the Obama administration that treats medical marijuana as the public health issue that it is," Hermes concluded.
While medical marijuana supporters have expressed outrage, groups that can usually be counted on to stand up for Second Amendment rights have been largely silent. Although the National Shooting Sports Foundation was the first place outside ATF to post the open letter, it has not responded to repeated Chronicle requests to comment on the Second Amendment rights of medical marijuana users. Neither has the National Rifle Association.
After this article went to publication, Gun Owners of America executive director Larry Pratt belatedly replied to our requests for comment.
"ATF seems to be dazed now that their Fast & Furious accessory-to-murder scheme has come to light," Pratt said. "Their first blind punch was the demand letter regarding multiple rifle sales in the four southwest border states. Not only is it a stupid attempt to try to blame gun stores for what ATF was telling them to do (or doing it directly themselves), but it is illegal. Now they want FFLs to profile gun buyers to guess who looks like a marijuana user. Again, they have no legal authority to ask for such an impossibility. What's not to like?"
In Montana, where both medical marijuana and gun rights are perennial hot topics, patients and firearms enthusiasts seem to have started on the same page.
"It is egregious that people may be sentenced to years in a federal prison only because they possessed a firearm while using a state- approved medicine," said Gary Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association.
"This is making people pretty crazy here in Montana," said Kate Chowela of the Montana Cannabis Industry Association. "This is a gun owning state, hunting is a big part of our tradition, we have that whole independent frontier thing going on. The government is rescinding the Second Amendment rights of people who use marijuana for their medical conditions. We have had the feeling that this was the policy, but now that we see it in writing for the first time, that really cements it," she added.
The policy may be cemented, but that doesn't mean the law on Second Amendment rights for medical marijuana patients is set in stone.
"It's all well and good for a federal agency to tell us what they think the law is, and that's what ATF has done," said Keith Stroup, founder and current counsel for NORML. But there is no federal or state court decision that has held a medical marijuana patient is disqualified from owning a gun."
"This breaks down like Justice Department opinion in general. They say they have a legal right to deny gun ownership, but they can't force the states to comply with that; they'll just have to enforce the law themselves," Fox said. "This is just a restatement of policy; there have been no court battles over it yet."
There could be one coming. In a case decided in May, Willis v. Winters, the Oregon Supreme Court upheld circuit and appeals court rulings that the Jackson and Washington county sheriffs could not deny concealed weapons permits to medical marijuana patients. The Oregon Sheriff's Association has now petitioned the US Supreme Court, which will consider whether to take up the appeal in an October 7 conference.
"In the Oregon concealed handgun cases, we argued that medical marijuana patients are not 'illegal drug users or addict' as that term is used in federal law, based on the legislative history of the law," explained attorney Leland Berger, who argued the case."The Oregon sheriffs have petitioned the US Supreme Court for certiori," Berger said. "I wrote the court saying that the cases were not certiori worthy and that we waived a response to the petition unless they asked us to file one."
In the meantime, CANORML's Gieringer had some common sense advice for patients and dispensary operators. "If you're a medical marijuana patient, don't mention it when you go buy a gun," recommended Gieringer. But he had a word of warning for dispensary operators. "I assume the feds will be ready to use this if they are prosecuting a dispensary and there were any guns on board," he said.
Comments
Wtf?
In reply to Wtf? by Powell420 (not verified)
When the "rights"orgs get
When the "rights"orgs get involved, so should you(sign petition, donate towards legal battle, appear in court.
Hide your .22 or be prepared to notify any police that have entered with reason of the .22
be prepared to deal with the dual issue federally, medical MJ and weapon possession combined.
This is a ploy to weaken your activity, via a lack of self defense and ratchet up the penalty for MJ participation.
Also, it's demonizing both MJ and self defense. Believe me, when it comes to protecting the individual, this is not the concern of the DEA. Not their domain, not their responsibility, regardless of the appearance to the contrary. Example, how many multigun-multiplant growers are there? A dozen in your state? 50? By separating the individual from one right in exchange for another they are forcing choice on you,, a long tested approach in legal entities wanting to take the offensive. Without pushing back, they win. The only way to push back is to strike down the push. Use your rights or lose them.
In reply to Wtf? by Powell420 (not verified)
Medical Cannabis and Gun Laws
First off, probably cool the smart-ass remarks. Look at your remark, first sentence sounds like you totally agree with the Feds (ATF), "Cool so I can be strung out on oxycontin and own as many guns as I'd like while I drink my American beer with it." Your second sentence says "This is sad, I have a .22 rifle at home and im a cannabis patient in California so what do I do?" The answer to this is obviously separating addictions into two categories, legal and illegal addictions. Those addicted to illegal (illicit) drugs, and those medically addicted to legal drugs, pain (cancer, etc.) patients and others, which cannabis pain patients in qualifying states would qualify. So your situation would be based on if you had a legal prescription for your oxycontins. President Obama should address this issue, another feather in his cap, I'm sure others may disagree.
In reply to Medical Cannabis and Gun Laws by toliveis2fly (not verified)
Medical Cannabis and Gun Laws
YOU are wrong in your assertion that being covered under a States Medical marijuana Program would be treated the same as being prescribed Morphine or Oxycontin. It is expressly stated in the article that Medical Marijuana Card Holders are forbidden to buy guns or ammunition.
typo
*certiorari*
In reply to typo by Matthew Meyer (not verified)
I was wondering about that
I was wondering about that too, but a web search found that there is also a legal term "certiori," in addition to "certiorari." I assume Phil got it right, but we'll double check.
Powell, you don't have to do
In reply to Powell, you don't have to do by Phil of the future (not verified)
You're right about Johnson and Paul
but absolutely wrong about Perry.
In reply to Powell, you don't have to do by Phil of the future (not verified)
Republicans Answer to Medical Marijuana Question: Jail!
At least President Obama instructed Justice to lay-off states with Medical Marijuana Laws. More than Bush would ever do, even though he [Bush] probably smoked more pot in his day than either of us, jerk. Obama has a lot of accomplishments, that's why I and 63 million others re-elected him.
In reply to Republicans Answer to Medical Marijuana Question: Jail! by toliveis2fly (not verified)
what a fool
excellent
This is the exact reason i dont carry a california state medical marijuana card. when will the DOJ come after Californias records and start taking our guns away? I wonder how the NRA feels about this. If they dont stand up against it im cancelling my membership asap.
In reply to excellent by codger (not verified)
You should cancel your membership anyway
the NRA has more often sided with government about restrictions on 2nd Amendment rights than they've fought them. If you want to join a group that really tries to restore the 2nd Amendment and fight government gun grabs, join GOA or CCRKBA.
In reply to You should cancel your membership anyway by Moonrider (not verified)
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) is another good group that consistently stands up for gun rights.
In my observation, the NRA is pretty good *most* of the time, but sometimes they act like sellouts, either from being too much in bed with the Republican Party or focusing too much on playing politics rather than on standing up for what's right regardless of the politics or both.
Scum of the Earth
I guess that's why Alaska doesn't issue medical marijuana cards, but even if you're found with recreational marijuana and have a gun for protection from bears or for hunting, you're a felon now. If "They hate us for our freedom," they must really love us now. The US Government is the biggest threat to our freedom, and the biggest terrorist organization in the world. Threatening citizens who have terminal illnesses with prison for owning a gun and some weed is a terrorist act. Our government is out of control.
And like Powell said, you can be strung out on alcohol and oxycontin, and own a firearm, but not a weed that's never killed anyone in its thousands of years of use. Push that poison all day long, but go to prison for using medicine and exercising your 2nd Amendment right. Our government is out of control.
In reply to Scum of the Earth by doris (not verified)
redneck morons are running america
if the NRA really cared about our second amendment, they'd vociferously support the rights of med pot patients to own guns. ironically, the moron rednecks at the justice dept are alcohol abusers and everyone knows that guns and alcohol don't mix. furthermore; they are ignoring the national epidemic of cops using illegal steroids and flying into "roid-rage"..... comonsense, logic and reason has never been the strongsuit of government goons.
In reply to redneck morons are running america by lessgov (not verified)
The NRA Is just like the rest
The NRA Is just like the rest of them! They dont care about us or the 2nd amendment! Its all about the money and power!
morons are running america
if the NRA really cared about our second amendment, they'd vociferously support the rights of med pot patients to own guns. ironically, the moron rednecks at the justice dept are alcohol abusers and everyone knows that guns and alcohol don't mix. furthermore; they are ignoring the national epidemic of cops using illegal steroids and flying into "roid-rage"..... comonsense, logic and reason has never been the strongsuit of government goons.
this is crazy
In reply to this is crazy by budman420 (not verified)
You are right
Ron Paul is our only hope to get this country back on Constitutional grounds. Want your freedom? Then get out there, go to the GOP caucuses and become a delegate for Ron Paul for the conventions (local, State, and national) and vote for him in the primary, even if you have to change your voter's registration's party affiliation. If he gets the nomination he will win the election against Obama:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ron-Paul-Bests-Obamain-Latest-bw-3821734650.html?x=0&.v=1
They want a criminal??
I do everything I can to be legal and they do everything they can to make me a criminal!!! They want a criminal they now have one!!! F*#K THEM!!! We need to stop pointing fingers at one President or group and realize that they are the same!! They want the same job!!! We need to hold all of them responsible!!!
Marijuana User = Second Class Citizen
As a 35+ year marijuana user, I have always felt it handicapped my potential and prevents me from being open and honest. The prohibition law hurts me 24/7. Have I hurt anyone because of marijuana? No. Am I worried I will have to take a drug screen because of an injury or spot check? Yes. Does it effect my health or skills at work? In no way shape or form. I am a criminal and an outlaw because I am for marijuana. I only use marijuana in private and do not drive while under the influence. I only use domestic product. Do not the pro marijuana people understand we must unite for the common cause to get it legalized BEFORE we fight among ourselves? WE MUST UNITE TO LEGALIZE MARIJUANA AND REMOVE THIS NEGATIVE STIGMA FROM PUBLIC PERCEPTION. Come on people let's work TOGETHER and LEGALIZE MARIJUANA IN THE UNITED STATES!
" The government's line is that the use of marihuana leads to more dangerous drugs. The fact is that the lack of marihuana leads to dangerous drugs." Dr. David Smith, Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic
In reply to Marijuana User = Second Class Citizen by disgusted (not verified)
"Do not the pro marijuana people understand?"
"Do not the pro marijuana people understand we must unite for the common cause to get it legalized BEFORE we fight among ourselves?"
I very much fear the activists, and the various interests/perspectives they come from, don't understand that. No unity in California, Washington, or Colorado according to the reports. If we were unified we could spend our time sharpening our arguments, anticipate the demagogic attacks that will inevitably be launched against us, and work on speaking as much as possible in a unified voice. If.
"The fact is that the lack of marihuana leads to dangerous drugs."
If the public health community in this country and this world would get real on alcohol vs. cannabis, they would confirm the importance of this statement. They know damn well that alcohol is far more likely to cause death and destruction than marijuana, and they should damn well know that cannabis not being available leads to more alcohol and hard drug use (alcohol is plenty hard enough for some, including fetuses). And if they're not aware that the latest research finds no link between marijuana smoking (let alone using a vaporizer etc), and cancer, they should be.
There's no particular shortage of people in this country who, because of their problem behavior UI alcohol but not UI weed, should be ordered by the courts to stay away from alcohol and use only marijuana if they want to get a buzz. And the public health community should be taking the lead in saying so. I don't see how there can be any dispute about the science, based on Centers for Disease Control statistics for alcohol related mortality, or lack of such grim statistics in the case of weed.
In reply to "Do not the pro marijuana people understand?" by saynotohypocrisy (not verified)
Unite!!
We carry MJ cards, we are legal under state laws. We want MJ to be unconditionally legal, and we want to be united in the fight. But, I must admit that a large majority of us are just sitting on the couch hoping someone else will do it all, because of the side effects of our MMJ! I confess to be one of the guilty, and I am sure there are many that would not confess.
Duane
In reply to Marijuana User = Second Class Citizen by disgusted (not verified)
Yes, we need to unite
in support of Ron Paul for president. Come ON, people, this IS our ONE CHANCE to elect a man to the presidency who WILL end the federal prohibition of drugs. If we don't do it this election, it could be decades, even a century before another like Ron Paul comes around again (it took two centuries between men the caliber of Jefferson and Madison and our own Ron Paul, who has, more than once, been called the "reincarnation of Jefferson").
Once the federal prohibition is gone, it will be much easier to get the majority of States to follow suit. People leaving those States which maintain prohibition and moving to States which have the good sense to normalize the "softer" drugs and medicalize the others, will put a lot of pressure on those prohibition States to change their laws, too.
In reply to Yes, we need to unite by Moonrider (not verified)
Ron Paul can't end federal prohibition by himself, can he?
Congress has to agree. How would that work out if Ron Paul was president? I'm not sure there's more than a handful of votes there for legalizing weed, and maybe zero for legalizing anything else. States rights advocates in Congress, like just about everyone else there, seem to defer to the drug war exemption from their normal standards.
I suppose he could say that he would refuse to enforce the drug laws. You know a lot more about Ron Paul than I do, Moonrider, so I'm interested in what you have to say in response.
In reply to Ron Paul can't end federal prohibition by himself, can he? by saynotohypocrisy (not verified)
Re: Ron Paul
He would first have the DoJ stop prosecuting drug crimes and he could, with the power of the presidency, pardon all currently federally incarcerated on drug crimes (thereby emptying the federal prisons of at least half their current population). I'm not certain if the president has the power to pardon those in State prisons, but if it is Constitutional, he'd do that, too. I don't think he'd use the Executive Order, since I suspect he likely finds EOs to be unconstitutional, but I believe while such an action by the president is still viewed as legal, he COULD use it to repeal all federal laws concerning prohibition of any and all drugs, and also to rid the federal government of all unconstitutional Cabinet positions (like the drug czar) and unconstitutional agencies (DEA, BATFE, ONDCP, NIDA, FDA, etc.) or at least force them to move into the 21st century with their "science" and rules. Since the CSA's schedule is not based on science (nor was it Constitutional, when it was passed), I suspect he'd suspend that, too, via EO before ending EOs altogether, or at least demand of Congress that they repeal the law that created that schedule.
At any rate, as someone who knows the Constitution, the Founders thoughts and intent in creating it, inside out, he'd do whatever is possible and Constitutional to bring government back under Constitutional rule. Ending the federal war on drugs, cuts our problem in half, it is much easier to bring pressure to bear on State government to change or repeal a law, than it is with the federal government. And in those States which decide to continue their own prohibitions, well they'd lose citizens to the States that ended prohibitions and, sooner or later, they'd have to come around to the position of individual liberty if they wanted to keep their population in these united States of America.
In reply to Re: Ron Paul by Moonrider (not verified)
If he just won't prosecute federal drug cases, that would work
I think. Or could Congress (a veto proof 2/3 majority of Congress) force him to enforce the law?
Thanks for the very interesting reply. I'm thinking hard about registering as a Republican.
In reply to If he just won't prosecute federal drug cases, that would work by saynotohypocrisy (not verified)
Please do
don't think too hard or too long, just do it.
loooong time
Funny that marihuana or how you want to name it , have been on off as how it go in this world or not and so on ... I have noticed that I am 37 y. young and I have smoked marihuana from age of 13 y. and I pay taxes and do work and do sports... so who are those bad and crazy people in this world I wonder?? NOT ME OK !!! because if I smoke and live my life save and happy doing the work i love to do. and i am a smoker pot head or whatever, still if I am like this I think that all other pot heads are same and this I refer to body and mind that it seems to be healthy and kicking , well I do not drink alcohol and do not smoke tobacco so it must be bad for me that I smoke weed, well I have try alcohol and tobacco and I was way more unhealthy at that time , so I do not have anything to add more , Thank god, budha and all the other holy and unholy things that there is this healthy tree . And for You , yes You who are thinking narrow , I let you know this , form Cannabis ,pot,weed.... You can produce these some very important things what we need in this ou so crazy world :
1. Clothing
2. Homes
3. Car ( Some electronic parts would have to produce old way)
4. Soap (for every living thing in this ou so crazy world)
5. Roads and highways
5. Bridges
6. Boats
7. Medicine
8. And last but not worst ... FOOOOOOD
SO ALL YOU WHO SAY AND THINK IT IS THIS AND THAT , READ THE FACTS MAYBE THEN YOU ARE HYS HYS WITH YOUR OPINIONS.
contradictions
If ATF is going to use records of legal purchasers of marijuana (people with prescriptions, buying from licensed, regulated facilities) to go after citizens, or tell FFLs they have to check the wallets/purses of their customers for prescription cards prior to completing a sale, aren't they admitting that those people have legal access to the drug, & therefore are NOT illegal users?
.
And how, exactly, are they going to convince a court to give them access to the confidential medical records maintained by all those dispensaries (or doctors, or the state), to compare with lists of gun buyers (that ATF insists they don't maintain)?
.
On the other hand, this is another state's rights argument, & no matter how it turns out it's bad for citizens.
If states are allowed to make their own laws & ignore federal laws in re drugs, then doesn't it logically follow they're allowed to make their own laws & ignore federal laws in re guns? (Yes, I know, one is a right & one isn't.)
.
And if the feds can overrule states to make them follow the Constitution re 2A rights, why can't they overrule states about drugs?
In reply to contradictions by MKEgal (not verified)
I think you do not quite understand
The way the federal government came into existence was via the States. The federal government was authorized by the States, via the Constitution, to have certain enumerated powers, clearly listed in the Constitution. The States are sovereign, the federal government is not master over them. The States ARE obligated to recognize the unalienable rights of the people and to abide by the federal Constitution as well as their own State Constitutions, including the rights listed in the Bill of Rights which government at any level is not to violate or infringe, but which is NOT laundry list of rights, there are others, too numerous to list, which is why the 9th Amendment is part of the Constitution -- to make that fact clear. The government is NOT authorized the power to interfere in a person's choices of foods, drugs, herbs, lifestyle, mates, careers, appliances, lightbulbs, toilets, etc., etc., etc.; and is absolutely forbidden to infringe on the right of the people to own or carry weapons -- this means they may not limit that right in any manner for a non-violent person, not with restrictions on what kinds of weapons one may purchase, or requiring licenses to carry weapons, or denying the right to anyone except a violent felon who has by his/her own acts made him/herself a danger to others. One is NOT required to ask permission of government o exercise an unalienable right.
Therefore, neither the laws prohibiting drugs and other substances, nor the laws limiting 2nd Amendment rights are lawful statutes. Our Founders made it clear to us that we are NOT obligated to obey unconstitutional statutes.
The States, as I said, must recognize our unalienable rights, they may NOT violate them, so ending federal prohibition pretty much forces the States to end it as well, tho since understanding of the Constitution is not really widespread, these days, it may take a while for the people to change the laws in their States. I suspect the States that currently have allowed medical cannabis, will be the first to end all prohibition within their borders.
Anyway, Ron Paul IS the man to end the federal prohibition, he has a far better chance of winning the nomination than Gary Johnson, the numbers of independents and democrats who are saying they will cross party lines to vote for Ron Paul are huge and still growing. Ron Paul really does have the best chance of all the GOP candidates, IF everyone who SAYS they support him for president actually gets out there and does what is necessary to get him the nomination -- attend the GOP precinct caucuses and local State and national conventions as delegates for Ron Paul (it the delegates who get the candidate nominated). Once he gets the nomination he's a certain win.
In reply to I think you do not quite understand by Moonrider (not verified)
You do not have to be a
In reply to I think you do not quite understand by Moonrider (not verified)
You do not have to be a
This is a disgrace to the
This is a disgrace to the Medical MJ community. Medical MJ is a prescription just like all prescribed drugs are you going to start banning everyone on prescription drugs now? It's a pain killer just like Morphine, Hydro, Norco, and many others! Our nation is turning away from democracy how much longer will we be free? Or will that be taken as well? The government system needs a TOTAL OVERHAUL where everyone is fired and not to return! ESPECIALLY OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Misinformation
I have a child in the 5th grade and her DARE teacher told her that marijuana makes people killers. She told the class that it made a man stick a baby in a microwave. I think misinforming or just straight out lying to kids about the effects of marijuana is wrong but you can't say anything to the school without fear of prosecution or having my children taken away. Why would people lie about this. No wonder marijuana is still illegal if this is what non smokers are being told. If the government just told the truth we could probably get more people to vote pro marijuana use. I personally believe we should legalize it then tax and regulate like we do alcohol and cigarettes. Now we have people smoking stuff like K-2 and spice to try and avoid the legal issues but who really knows what chemicals are in that? I feel it would be safer if they just let people smoke a natural herb.
Having "my children taken away" over marijuana
Having to worry about objecting to a filthy DARE lie. This makes my blood boil to think states are capable of taking away your children over marijuana use. In which parts of the country do they still do something so monstrous and vile? Have the courts ever signed off on this? Where? Those courts can have their own personal hall of shame. Why don't they make cannabis users their slaves while they're at it? Trying to palm their own alcoholic fueled sins off on cannabis users. And still getting away with it quite nicely, thank you.
The simple fact that the
The simple fact that the media continues to ignore Ron Paul should tell you that the 'powers that be' DO NOT want him elected! Why is that!?
Could it be that he won't continue 'business as usual'?!
How refreshing to have someone who believes in the Constitution and our Civil Rights.
The right to be left alone, freedom to put into our bodies what we please, reduce fear-mongering around the world, reign in the 'police state' and ensure states rights trump the Fed.
WAIT! I heard the media say he's unelectable, so I'd better believe them and vote for who they say... (cue sarcasm).
How they'd love to force Perry or Romney or someone unforseen yet upon us as our only choices!
If the American sheeple don't wake up to these facts, they get what they deserve (sad as it is).
In reply to The simple fact that the by Plant down Babylon (not verified)
You are correct
He IS the one who will restore Constitutional rule of the federal government, and that IS the reason the media keep telling the lie that he is "unelectable", no one in power wants their power restricted and he will make certain the federal government would lose a lot of the power it has usurped and amassed over the past century. He IS electable IF the people who want their individual rights acknowledged by the government do what is necessary to get him the nomination by becoming delegates for him at the GOP caucuses and conventions (local, State and national) and then vote for him in the primary and the general elections. We CAN prove the media and party bosses wrong about that "unelectable" meme.
Btw, if you register at this site (easy to do, all you need to do is choose a username and password) you can edit your posts and even delete them if you wish. You could have deleted your duplicate, if you were registered here.
The simple fact that the
The simple fact that the media continues to ignore Ron Paul should tell you that the 'powers that be' DO NOT want him elected! Why is that!?
Could it be that he won't continue 'business as usual'?!
How refreshing to have someone who believes in the Constitution and our Civil Rights.
The right to be left alone, freedom to put into our bodies what we please, reduce fear-mongering around the world, reign in the 'police state' and ensure states rights trump the Fed.
WAIT! I heard the media say he's unelectable, so I'd better believe them and vote for who they say... (cue sarcasm).
How they'd love to force Perry or Romney or someone unforseen yet upon us as our only choices!
If the American sheeple don't wake up to these facts, they get what they deserve (sad as it is).
PRETTY FUNNY STUFF
In reply to PRETTY FUNNY STUFF by THE TRUTH (not verified)
O Shut Up
Ever hear of the Branch Davidians? You little shotgun wont change a thing.
We need solutions here not drooling gun fetishists and Ron Paul propagandists.
The ATF "memo" is interpreting the law. It is assuming mere possession of an MMJ card proves "unlawful use and addiction to" marijuana.
Does mere possession of a legally obtained state MMJ card prove 'unlawful use or addiction to a controlled substance".
Obama DOJ says yes.
Obama DOJ says that MJ is a schedule I "controlled substance", regardless of what the states say.
Obama DOJ says that mere possession of an MMJ card proves "unlawful use" regardless of what the states say.
So, according to the memo, anyone who has stated NO to this questions *and* possesses an MMJ card is in violation of federal law and could be imprisoned for 5-10 years for lying on the form and signing it.
So, its not about "taking your guns away". its about getting you for a 5 year min prison sentence for lying on the application if you checked NO here.
They may never find out..unless you ever have to USE your gun...then they will get you for lying and you will go to prison, nor for any 2nd amendment issue, but for lying on a federal application.
If you say YES, you havent broken the law but your attempt to buy a gun will be denied.
The regulatory malfeasance of the Obama Administration is mind boggling.
I will not vote GOP...EVER...but Obama is not getting my vote.
how can i rescind my medical
how can i rescind my medical mj card? i would rather have my guns and just keep my other business to myself, off grid.
how can i cancel my medical
how can i cancel my medical mj card? i'd rather keep my guns and my other business off grid.
In reply to how can i cancel my medical by katie kannabis (not verified)
Good Question
In reply to Good Question by Tiger Law (not verified)
Don't register guns
The SCOTUS has already ruled a felon in possession of a gun cannot be penalized for failure to register as such would be a violation of their 5th amendment right against self incrimination.
Are you Sure
The restriction is on "narcotics" and being an "addict" which they loosely define as habitual or daily use. So if a person takes a prescribed pain killer, actual narcotic or synthetic, would they not then be subjected to the same loss of rights.
Additionally a medical card is not necessary for medical marijuana, a doctors recommendation is. My Kaiser Doctors recommended many things, "Vicodin" and a "Statin", that I did not take for example. If a potential medical marijuana patient with a recommendation but no state card, or a patient that is prescribed daily narcotics but does not take them where does that leave them.
Big Government equals Big Problems, For the People by the People, Go Ron Paul.
Vote Ron Paul 2012 The last
stuck in the middle
CA NORML is WRONG! BAD INFO! DO NOT LIE ON ATF 4473!
Friends,
This is WRONG:
In the meantime, CANORML's Gieringer had some common sense advice for patients and dispensary operators. "If you're a medical marijuana patient, don't mention it when you go buy a gun," recommended Gieringer.
If you LIE on ATF form 4473: "Lying on this form is a felony and can be punished by up to five years in prison in addition to fines, even if the transaction is simply denied by the NICS."
If you "don't mention" you have a state issued medical marijuana card on form 4473 and they find out that you do you have committed a FELONY!
I know a guy who was sentenced to over a year in Federal prison for simply lying on this form. He never bought the gun, he wad denied the purchase and upon further review of his application he was subsequently arrested and convicted.
Be careful people!
Todd
New policies apparently taken over, and a loophole for those inv
Beginning in February 2013 many applicants exceedng one year imprisonment passed the standard background check are now being denied. The only recourse is to write the FBI for an explanation, which may or may not include the specific conviction responsible. Any conviction or current indictment for possession of drugs, including misdemeanor possession of any amount of marijuana will also cause a denial on your application. Also, I am convinced the ATF form required to purchase or redeem guns has been changed recently to include whether you have been convicted or indicted of any crime with a maximum penalty exceeding one year. This is apparently not a new law, but in the past was not an automatic denial, currently it seems to be. I have filled out many of these forms in the last year due to being forced by circumstance to pawn many firearms and going through the same process to redeem them as required by a new purchase. I don not remember seeing the change in wording until I attempted to redeem some guns, and delayed and then denied. The only explanation for my denial is the fact I am awaiting court for charges of possession, which I expect to be cleared of due to the charge referring only to residue in a pipe. I am prepared to plead guilty to a paraphernalia charge, but possesssion would require there to be some quantity of substance taken and cataloged as evidence, at least one would think. The other charge possibly responsible is reckless driving. But here is something I found today which may help anyone who has been denied, or like me forced to transfer guns to another person due to denial at redemption from pawn. Federal Statute 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(20)(B), says that a "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" does not include "any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less." This does not apply if the crime meets the criteria for domestic violence, or while under an DVPO
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