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ATF Says No Guns for Medical Marijuana Patients [FEATURE]

Submitted by Phillip Smith on (Issue #702)
Drug War Issues

In a memo released last week, the US Department of Justice has notified federal firearms dealers that medical marijuana patients are "addicts" or "unlawful drug users" who cannot legally own weapons or ammunition. A medical marijuana registration card is proof enough to deny a weapons sale, the memo said. That has medical marijuana advocates crying foul, but national gun rights groups -- not so much. [Update: One national group now has responded; see the statement from Gun Owners of America in the text below.]

No "Sweetness" for Medical Marijuana Patients, ATF Says
The memo was authored by Arthur Herbert, Assistant Director for Enforcement Programs and Services for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms (ATF). Herbert said he wrote the memo after receiving "a number of inquiries about the use of marijuana for medical purposes, and its applicability to federal firearms laws."

Herbert cited the section of the federal criminal code that prohibits anyone who is "an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance" from possessing firearms. He reminded firearms dealers that they cannot legally sell guns to people they have reasonable cause to believe are illegal drug users or addicts and wrote that anyone presenting a medical marijuana registration card is providing reasonable cause for the dealer to believe they are illegal drug users or addicts.

Despite the Obama administration's 2009 Justice Department memo famously vowing not to go after patients and providers in compliance with state laws, the federal government has never wavered from its stance that, despite state medical marijuana laws, marijuana remains a Schedule I controlled substance.

"Any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether or not his or her state has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or is addicted to a controlled substance and is prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition," Herbert wrote.

While the federal gun law is not new, its restatement with specific reference to medical marijuana patients is, and that has advocates concerned.

"This is more evidence of the Obama administration's malfeasance with regard to medical marijuana," said Dale Gieringer, long-time director of California NORML. "They have a real penchant for over-regulation. We've seen it with the Treasury rules and warnings to banks, we've seen it with the continued arrests by other federal agencies. What's particularly disturbing is that this memo comes from a Justice Department that three years ago said it was going to respect state laws regarding medical marijuana."

"I don't think the feds are going to go after gun dealers selling to medical marijuana patients, but the important this is that if you use this medicine your constitutional rights are forfeit," said Morgan Fox, communications director for the Marijuana Policy Project. "This is just a travesty. Trying to treat medical marijuana patients like second-class citizens and stripping them of their rights as they are dealing with illness is just despicable."

"The possession of a firearm could make a medical marijuana patient vulnerable to additional charges and sentencing if convicted of a federal marijuana crime, and patients should be aware of that," said Kris Hermes, spokesman for Americans for Safe Access. "However, it is not the federal government's place to prevent medical marijuana patients from owning firearms. Following in the footsteps of the Justice Department, Veterans Affairs, and Housing and Urban Development, the ATF memo illustrates how yet another arm of the Obama Administration has demonized medical marijuana and the patient community. The ATF memo underscores the need for a comprehensive policy from the Obama administration that treats medical marijuana as the public health issue that it is," Hermes concluded.

While medical marijuana supporters have expressed outrage, groups that can usually be counted on to stand up for Second Amendment rights have been largely silent. Although the National Shooting Sports Foundation was the first place outside ATF to post the open letter, it has not responded to repeated Chronicle requests to comment on the Second Amendment rights of medical marijuana users. Neither has the National Rifle Association.

After this article went to publication, Gun Owners of America executive director Larry Pratt belatedly replied to our requests for comment.

"ATF seems to be dazed now that their Fast & Furious accessory-to-murder scheme has come to light," Pratt said. "Their first blind punch was the demand letter regarding multiple rifle sales in the four southwest border states. Not only is it a stupid attempt to try to blame gun stores for what ATF was telling them to do (or doing it directly themselves), but it is illegal. Now they want FFLs to profile gun buyers to guess who looks like a marijuana user.  Again, they have no legal authority to ask for such an impossibility. What's not to like?"

In Montana, where both medical marijuana and gun rights are perennial hot topics, patients and firearms enthusiasts seem to have started on the same page.

"It is egregious that people may be sentenced to years in a federal prison only because they possessed a firearm while using a state- approved medicine," said Gary Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association.

"This is making people pretty crazy here in Montana," said Kate Chowela of the Montana Cannabis Industry Association. "This is a gun owning state, hunting is a big part of our tradition, we have that whole independent frontier thing going on. The government is rescinding the Second Amendment rights of people who use marijuana for their medical conditions. We have had the feeling that this was the policy, but now that we see it in writing for the first time, that really cements it," she added.

The policy may be cemented, but that doesn't mean the law on Second Amendment rights for medical marijuana patients is set in stone.

"It's all well and good for a federal agency to tell us what they think the law is, and that's what ATF has done," said Keith Stroup, founder and current counsel for NORML. But there is no federal or state court decision that has held a medical marijuana patient is disqualified from owning a gun."

"This breaks down like Justice Department opinion in general. They say they have a legal right to deny gun ownership, but they can't force the states to comply with that; they'll just have to enforce the law themselves," Fox said. "This is just a restatement of policy; there have been no court battles over it yet."

There could be one coming. In a case decided in May, Willis v. Winters, the Oregon Supreme Court upheld circuit and appeals court rulings that the Jackson and Washington county sheriffs could not deny concealed weapons permits to medical marijuana patients. The Oregon Sheriff's Association has now petitioned the US Supreme Court, which will consider whether to take up the appeal in an October 7 conference.

"In the Oregon concealed handgun cases, we argued that medical marijuana patients are not 'illegal drug users or addict' as that term is used in federal law, based on the legislative history of the law," explained attorney Leland Berger, who argued the case."The Oregon sheriffs have petitioned the US Supreme Court for certiori," Berger said. "I wrote the court saying that the cases were not certiori worthy and that we waived a response to the petition unless they asked us to file one."

In the meantime, CANORML's Gieringer had some common sense advice for patients and dispensary operators. "If you're a medical marijuana patient, don't mention it when you go buy a gun," recommended Gieringer. But he had a word of warning for dispensary operators. "I assume the feds will be ready to use this if they are prosecuting a dispensary and there were any guns on board," he said.

Permission to Reprint: This content is licensed under a modified Creative Commons Attribution license. Content of a purely educational nature in Drug War Chronicle appear courtesy of DRCNet Foundation, unless otherwise noted.


Powell420 (not verified)

Cool so I can be strung out on oxycotin and own as many guns as I'd like while I drink my American beer with it.. This is sad, I have a .22 rifle at home and im a cannabis patient in California so what do I do?
Wed, 09/28/2011 - 11:52pm Permalink
Anonymoudrmaddogs (not verified)

In reply to by Powell420 (not verified)

When the "rights"orgs get involved, so should you(sign petition, donate towards legal battle, appear in court.

Hide your .22 or be prepared to notify any police that have entered with reason of the .22

be prepared to deal with the dual issue federally, medical MJ and weapon possession combined.

This is a ploy to weaken your activity, via a lack of self defense and ratchet up the penalty for MJ participation.

Also, it's demonizing both MJ and self defense. Believe me, when it comes to protecting the individual, this is not the concern of the DEA. Not their domain, not their responsibility, regardless of the appearance to the contrary. Example, how many multigun-multiplant growers are there? A dozen in your state? 50? By separating the individual from one right in exchange for another they are forcing choice on you,, a long tested approach in legal entities wanting to take the offensive. Without pushing back, they win. The only way to push back is to strike down the push. Use your rights or lose them.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 1:12pm Permalink
toliveis2fly (not verified)

In reply to by Powell420 (not verified)

First off, probably cool the smart-ass remarks. Look at your remark, first sentence sounds like you totally agree with the Feds (ATF), "Cool so I can be strung out on oxycontin and own as many guns as I'd like while I drink my American beer with it." Your second sentence says "This is sad, I have a .22 rifle at home and im a cannabis patient in California so what do I do?" The answer to this is obviously separating addictions into two categories, legal and illegal addictions. Those addicted to illegal (illicit) drugs, and those medically addicted to legal drugs, pain (cancer, etc.) patients and others, which cannabis pain patients in qualifying states would qualify. So your situation would be based on if you had a legal prescription for your oxycontins. President Obama should address this issue, another feather in his cap, I'm sure others may disagree.

Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:38pm Permalink
RichardT (not verified)

In reply to by toliveis2fly (not verified)

YOU are wrong in your assertion that being covered under a States Medical marijuana Program would be treated the same as being prescribed Morphine or Oxycontin. It is expressly stated in the article that Medical Marijuana Card Holders are forbidden to buy guns or ammunition.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 2:23am Permalink
Matthew Meyer (not verified)


Thu, 09/29/2011 - 12:03pm Permalink
borden (not verified)

In reply to by Matthew Meyer (not verified)

I was wondering about that too, but a web search found that there is also a legal term "certiori," in addition to "certiorari." I assume Phil got it right, but we'll double check.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 4:39pm Permalink
Phil of the future (not verified)

Powell, you don't have to do anything. These people can go f*ck themselves. Maybe go buy some more guns now before they set precedent with this one. They would probably love to disarm more Americans if they get a chance. There are three conservatives (Paul, Johnson, & Perry) who respect states rights on Mmj and gun rights. None of them would ever let this happen. Obama blew his chances a long time ago. What an idiot.
Thu, 09/29/2011 - 12:30pm Permalink
toliveis2fly (not verified)

In reply to by Phil of the future (not verified)

At least President Obama instructed Justice to lay-off states with Medical Marijuana Laws. More than Bush would ever do, even though he [Bush] probably smoked more pot in his day than either of us, jerk. Obama has a lot of accomplishments, that's why I and 63 million others re-elected him.

Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:45pm Permalink
codger (not verified)

This is the exact reason i dont carry a california state medical marijuana card. when will the DOJ come after Californias records and start taking our guns  away? I wonder how the NRA feels about this. If they dont stand up against it im cancelling my membership asap.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 1:04pm Permalink
Moonrider (not verified)

In reply to by codger (not verified)

the NRA has more often sided with government about restrictions on 2nd Amendment rights than they've fought them.  If you want to join a group that really tries to restore the 2nd Amendment and fight government gun grabs, join GOA or CCRKBA.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 4:58pm Permalink
Starchild (not verified)

In reply to by Moonrider (not verified)

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) is another good group that consistently stands up for gun rights.

In my observation, the NRA is pretty good *most* of the time, but sometimes they act like sellouts, either from being too much in bed with the Republican Party or focusing too much on playing politics rather than on standing up for what's right regardless of the politics or both.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 8:26am Permalink
doris (not verified)

I guess that's why Alaska doesn't issue medical marijuana cards, but even if you're found with recreational marijuana and have a gun for protection from bears or for hunting, you're a felon now. If "They hate us for our freedom," they must really love us now. The US Government is the biggest threat to our freedom, and the biggest terrorist organization in the world. Threatening citizens who have terminal illnesses with prison for owning a gun and some weed is a terrorist act. Our government is out of control.

And like Powell said, you can be strung out on alcohol and oxycontin, and own a firearm, but not a weed that's never killed anyone in its thousands of years of use. Push that poison all day long, but go to prison for using medicine and exercising your 2nd Amendment right. Our government is out of control.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 1:53pm Permalink
lessgov (not verified)

In reply to by doris (not verified)

if the NRA really cared about our second amendment, they'd vociferously support the rights of med pot patients to own guns.   ironically, the moron rednecks at the justice dept are alcohol abusers and everyone knows that guns and alcohol don't mix.   furthermore;  they are ignoring the national epidemic of cops using illegal steroids and flying into "roid-rage".....   comonsense, logic and reason has never been the strongsuit of government goons.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 3:05pm Permalink
lessgov (not verified)

if the NRA really cared about our second amendment, they'd vociferously support the rights of med pot patients to own guns.   ironically, the moron rednecks at the justice dept are alcohol abusers and everyone knows that guns and alcohol don't mix.   furthermore;  they are ignoring the national epidemic of cops using illegal steroids and flying into "roid-rage".....   comonsense, logic and reason has never been the strongsuit of government goons.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 3:01pm Permalink
budman420 (not verified)

Wow...... I am glad I left sac town. I love my guns. Vote Ron Paul. I usually don't vote unless they are in support of drugs and less government and voting for him, a republican, usually I would never do that. F*** it. Get out of my face government.
Thu, 09/29/2011 - 4:44pm Permalink
Moonrider (not verified)

In reply to by budman420 (not verified)

Ron Paul is our only hope to get this country back on Constitutional grounds.  Want your freedom? Then get out there, go to the GOP caucuses and become a delegate for Ron Paul for the conventions (local, State, and national) and vote for him in the primary, even if you have to change your voter's registration's party affiliation.  If he gets the nomination he will win the election against Obama:

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 5:07pm Permalink
Pat Effem (not verified)

 I do everything I can to be legal and they do everything they can to make me a criminal!!! They want a criminal they now have one!!! F*#K THEM!!! We need to stop pointing fingers at one President or group and realize that they are the same!! They want the same job!!! We need to hold all of them responsible!!! 

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 7:07pm Permalink
disgusted (not verified)

As a 35+ year marijuana user, I have always felt it handicapped my potential and prevents me from being open and honest. The prohibition law hurts me 24/7. Have I hurt anyone because of marijuana? No. Am I worried I will have to take a drug screen because of an injury or spot check? Yes. Does it effect my health or skills at work? In no way shape or form. I am a criminal and an outlaw because I am for marijuana. I only use marijuana in private and do not drive while under the influence. I only use domestic product.  Do not the pro marijuana people understand we must unite for the common cause to get it legalized BEFORE we fight among ourselves? WE MUST UNITE TO LEGALIZE MARIJUANA AND REMOVE THIS NEGATIVE STIGMA FROM PUBLIC PERCEPTION. Come on people let's work TOGETHER and LEGALIZE MARIJUANA IN THE UNITED STATES!


" The government's line is that the use of marihuana leads to more dangerous drugs. The fact is that the lack of marihuana leads to dangerous drugs." Dr. David Smith, Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 7:22pm Permalink
saynotohypocrisy (not verified)

In reply to by disgusted (not verified)

"Do not the pro marijuana people understand we must unite for the common cause to get it legalized BEFORE we  fight among ourselves?"

I very much fear the activists, and the various interests/perspectives they come from, don't understand that. No unity in California, Washington, or Colorado according to the reports. If we were unified we could spend our time sharpening our arguments, anticipate the demagogic attacks that will inevitably be launched against us, and work on speaking as much as possible in a unified voice. If.

"The fact is that the lack of marihuana leads to dangerous drugs."

If the public health community in this country and this world would get real on alcohol vs. cannabis, they would confirm the importance of this statement. They know damn well that alcohol is far more likely to cause death and destruction than marijuana, and they should damn well know that cannabis not being available leads to more alcohol and hard drug use (alcohol is plenty hard enough for some, including fetuses). And if they're not aware that the latest research finds no link between marijuana smoking (let alone using a vaporizer etc),  and cancer, they should be.

There's no particular shortage of people in this country who, because of their problem behavior UI alcohol but not UI weed, should be ordered by the courts to stay away from alcohol and use only marijuana if they want to get a buzz. And the public health community should be taking the lead in saying so. I don't see how there can be any dispute about the science, based on Centers for Disease Control statistics for alcohol related mortality, or lack of such grim statistics in the case of weed.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 1:28am Permalink
Dews (not verified)

In reply to by saynotohypocrisy (not verified)

We carry MJ cards, we are legal under state laws.  We want MJ to be unconditionally legal, and we want to be united in the fight.  But, I must admit that a large majority of us are just sitting on the couch hoping someone else will do it all, because of the side effects of our MMJ!  I confess to be one of the guilty, and I am sure there are many that would not confess.



Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:02am Permalink
Moonrider (not verified)

In reply to by disgusted (not verified)

in support of Ron Paul for president.  Come ON, people, this IS our ONE CHANCE to elect a man to the presidency who WILL end the federal prohibition of drugs.  If we don't do it this election, it could be decades, even a century before another like Ron Paul comes around again (it took two centuries between men the caliber of Jefferson and Madison and our own Ron Paul, who has, more than once, been called the "reincarnation of Jefferson").  

Once the federal prohibition is gone, it will be much easier to get the majority of States to follow suit.  People leaving those States which maintain prohibition and moving to States which have the good sense to normalize the "softer" drugs and medicalize the others, will put a lot of pressure on those prohibition States to change their laws, too.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 4:19am Permalink
saynotohypocrisy (not verified)

In reply to by Moonrider (not verified)

Congress has to agree. How would that work out if Ron Paul was president? I'm not sure there's more than a handful of votes there for legalizing weed, and maybe zero for legalizing anything else. States rights advocates in Congress, like just about everyone else there, seem to defer to the drug war exemption from their normal standards.

I suppose he could say that he would refuse to enforce the drug laws. You know a lot more about Ron Paul than  I do, Moonrider, so I'm interested in what you have to say in response.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 3:35pm Permalink
Moonrider (not verified)

In reply to by saynotohypocrisy (not verified)

He would first have the DoJ stop prosecuting drug crimes and he could, with the power of the presidency, pardon all currently federally incarcerated on drug crimes (thereby emptying the federal prisons of at least half their current population).  I'm not certain if the president has the power to pardon those in State prisons, but if it is Constitutional, he'd do that, too.  I don't think he'd use the Executive Order, since I suspect he likely finds EOs to be unconstitutional, but I believe while such an action by the president is still viewed as legal, he COULD use it to repeal all federal laws concerning prohibition of any and all drugs, and also to rid the federal government of all unconstitutional Cabinet positions (like the drug czar) and unconstitutional agencies (DEA, BATFE, ONDCP, NIDA, FDA, etc.) or at least force them to move into the 21st century with their "science" and rules.  Since the CSA's schedule is not based on science (nor was it Constitutional, when it was passed), I suspect he'd suspend that, too, via EO before ending EOs altogether, or at least demand of Congress that they repeal the law that created that schedule.  

At any rate, as someone who knows the Constitution, the Founders thoughts and intent in creating it, inside out, he'd do whatever is possible and Constitutional to bring government back under Constitutional rule.  Ending the federal war on drugs, cuts our problem in half, it is much easier to bring pressure to bear on State government to change or repeal a law, than it is with the federal government.  And in those States which decide to continue their own prohibitions, well they'd lose citizens to the States that ended prohibitions and, sooner or later, they'd have to come around to the position of individual liberty if they wanted to keep their population in these united States of America.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 4:22am Permalink
:P (not verified)

Funny that marihuana or how you want to name it , have been on off as how it go in this world or not and so on ... I have noticed that I am 37 y. young and I have smoked marihuana from age of 13 y. and I pay taxes and do work and do sports... so who are those bad and crazy people in this world I wonder?? NOT ME OK !!! because if I smoke and live my life save and happy doing the work i love to do. and i am a smoker pot head or whatever, still if I am like this I think that all other pot heads are same and this I refer to body and mind that it seems to be healthy and kicking , well I do not drink alcohol and do not smoke tobacco so it must be bad for me that I smoke weed, well I have try alcohol and tobacco and I was way more unhealthy at that time , so I do not have anything to add more , Thank god, budha and all the other holy and unholy things that there is this  healthy tree . And for You , yes You who are thinking narrow , I let you know this , form Cannabis ,pot,weed.... You can produce these some very important things what we need in this ou so crazy world :

1. Clothing 

2. Homes 

3. Car ( Some electronic parts would have to produce old way)

4. Soap (for every living thing in this ou  so crazy world)

5. Roads and highways

5. Bridges

6. Boats

7. Medicine

8. And last but not worst ... FOOOOOOD



Thu, 09/29/2011 - 9:38pm Permalink
MKEgal (not verified)

If ATF is going to use records of legal purchasers of marijuana (people with prescriptions, buying from licensed, regulated facilities) to go after citizens, or tell FFLs they have to check the wallets/purses of their customers for prescription cards prior to completing a sale, aren't they admitting that those people have legal access to the drug, & therefore are NOT illegal users?
And how, exactly, are they going to convince a court to give them access to the confidential medical records maintained by all those dispensaries (or doctors, or the state), to compare with lists of gun buyers (that ATF insists they don't maintain)?
On the other hand, this is another state's rights argument, & no matter how it turns out it's bad for citizens.
If states are allowed to make their own laws & ignore federal laws in re drugs, then doesn't it logically follow they're allowed to make their own laws & ignore federal laws in re guns? (Yes, I know, one is a right & one isn't.)
And if the feds can overrule states to make them follow the Constitution re 2A rights, why can't they overrule states about drugs?

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 9:53pm Permalink
Moonrider (not verified)

In reply to by MKEgal (not verified)

The way the federal government came into existence was via the States.  The federal government was authorized by the States, via the Constitution, to have certain enumerated powers, clearly listed in the Constitution.  The States are sovereign, the federal government is not master over them.  The States ARE obligated to recognize the unalienable rights of the people and to abide by the federal Constitution as well as their own State Constitutions, including the rights listed in the Bill of Rights which government at any level is not to violate or infringe, but which is NOT laundry list of rights, there are others, too numerous to list, which is why the 9th Amendment is part of the Constitution -- to make that fact clear.  The government is NOT authorized the power to interfere in a person's choices of foods, drugs, herbs, lifestyle, mates, careers, appliances, lightbulbs, toilets, etc., etc., etc.; and is absolutely forbidden to infringe on the right of the people to own or carry weapons -- this means they may not limit that right in any manner for a non-violent person, not with restrictions on what kinds of weapons one may purchase, or requiring licenses to carry weapons, or denying the right to anyone except a violent felon who has by his/her own acts made him/herself a danger to others.  One is NOT required to ask permission of government o exercise an unalienable right. 

Therefore, neither the laws prohibiting drugs and other substances, nor the laws limiting 2nd Amendment rights are lawful statutes.  Our Founders made it clear to us that we are NOT obligated to obey unconstitutional statutes.

The States, as I said, must recognize our unalienable rights, they may NOT violate them, so ending federal prohibition pretty much forces the States to end it as well, tho since understanding of the Constitution is not really widespread, these days, it may take a while for the people to change the laws in their States.  I suspect the States that currently have allowed medical cannabis, will be the first to end all prohibition within their borders. 

Anyway, Ron Paul IS the man to end the federal prohibition, he has a far better chance of winning the nomination than Gary Johnson, the numbers of independents and democrats who are saying they will cross party lines to vote for Ron Paul are huge and still growing.  Ron Paul really does have the best chance of all the GOP candidates, IF everyone who SAYS they support him for president actually gets out there and does what is necessary to get him the nomination -- attend the GOP precinct caucuses and local State and national conventions as delegates for Ron Paul (it the delegates who get the candidate nominated).  Once he gets the nomination he's a certain win.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 4:31am Permalink
Heather O (not verified)

This is a disgrace to the Medical MJ community. Medical MJ is a prescription just like all prescribed drugs are you going to start banning everyone on prescription drugs now? It's a pain killer just like Morphine, Hydro, Norco, and many others! Our nation is turning away from democracy how much longer will we be free? Or will that be taken as well? The government system needs a TOTAL OVERHAUL where everyone is fired and not to return! ESPECIALLY OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 2:02pm Permalink
Rachel (not verified)

I have a child in the 5th grade and her DARE teacher told her that marijuana makes people killers.  She told the class that it made a man stick a baby in a microwave.  I think misinforming or just straight out lying to kids about the effects of marijuana is wrong but you can't say anything to the school without fear of prosecution or having my children taken away.  Why would people lie about this.  No wonder marijuana is still illegal if this is what non smokers are being told.  If the government just told the truth we could probably get more people to vote pro marijuana use.  I personally believe we should legalize it then tax and regulate like we do alcohol and cigarettes.  Now we have people smoking stuff like K-2 and spice to try and avoid the legal issues but who really knows what chemicals are in that?  I feel it would be safer if they just let people smoke a natural herb.  

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 2:08pm Permalink
saynotohypocrisy (not verified)

Having to worry about objecting to a filthy DARE lie. This makes my blood boil to think states are capable of taking away your children over marijuana use. In which parts of the country do they still do something so monstrous and vile?   Have the courts ever signed off on this? Where? Those courts can have their own personal hall of shame. Why don't they make cannabis users their slaves while they're at it? Trying to palm their own alcoholic fueled sins off on cannabis users. And still getting away with it quite nicely, thank you.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 6:17pm Permalink
Plant down Babylon (not verified)

The simple fact that the media continues to ignore Ron Paul should tell you that the 'powers that be' DO NOT want him elected! Why is that!?
Could it be that he won't continue 'business as usual'?!
How refreshing to have someone who believes in the Constitution and our Civil Rights.
The right to be left alone, freedom to put into our bodies what we please, reduce fear-mongering around the world, reign in the 'police state' and ensure states rights trump the Fed.

WAIT! I heard the media say he's unelectable, so I'd better believe them and vote for who they say... (cue sarcasm).
How they'd love to force Perry or Romney or someone unforseen yet upon us as our only choices!
If the American sheeple don't wake up to these facts, they get what they deserve (sad as it is).

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 1:49am Permalink
Moonrider (not verified)

In reply to by Plant down Babylon (not verified)

He IS the one who will restore Constitutional rule of the federal government, and that IS the reason the media keep telling the lie that he is "unelectable", no one in power wants their power restricted and he will make certain the federal government would lose a lot of the power it has usurped and amassed over the past century.  He IS electable IF the people who want their individual rights acknowledged by the government do what is necessary to get him the nomination by becoming delegates for him at the GOP caucuses and conventions (local, State and national) and then vote for him in the primary and the general elections.  We CAN prove the media and party bosses wrong about that "unelectable" meme.

Btw, if you register at this site (easy to do, all you need to do is choose a username and password) you can edit your posts and even delete them if you wish.  You could have deleted your duplicate, if you were registered here.

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 4:27am Permalink
Plant down Babylon (not verified)

The simple fact that the media continues to ignore Ron Paul should tell you that the 'powers that be' DO NOT want him elected! Why is that!?
Could it be that he won't continue 'business as usual'?!
How refreshing to have someone who believes in the Constitution and our Civil Rights.
The right to be left alone, freedom to put into our bodies what we please, reduce fear-mongering around the world, reign in the 'police state' and ensure states rights trump the Fed.

WAIT! I heard the media say he's unelectable, so I'd better believe them and vote for who they say... (cue sarcasm).
How they'd love to force Perry or Romney or someone unforseen yet upon us as our only choices!
If the American sheeple don't wake up to these facts, they get what they deserve (sad as it is).

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 1:51am Permalink
THE TRUTH (not verified)

Well the ATF IS SO SAD.. They cant even protect US citizens against cartels but they try to take peoples protection.. IF thiefs figure out that all patients dont have any type of protection then they will come in with guns theirselves and try to rob them.. Sorry ATF, But thats just not going to happen.. I WILL PROTECT MYSELF AND MY FAMILY SO IF I NEED A 12 GUAGE SHOT GUN I WILL HAVE IT AT MY HOME READY AT ALL TIMES... RIGHT TO BARE ARMS..... TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM EVIL AS WEL AS CORRUPT GOVERNMENT.... ATF YOU ARE A STRAIGHT JOKE AND YOU SHOULD PAY THE TAX PAYING PEOPLE BACK FOR ALL THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS YOU HAVE WASTED......
Mon, 10/10/2011 - 2:48am Permalink
Tiger Law (not verified)

In reply to by THE TRUTH (not verified)

Ever hear of the Branch Davidians? You little shotgun wont change a thing.

We need solutions here not drooling gun fetishists and Ron Paul propagandists.

The ATF "memo" is interpreting the law. It is assuming mere possession of an MMJ card proves "unlawful use and addiction to" marijuana.

Does mere possession of a legally obtained state MMJ card prove 'unlawful use or addiction to a controlled substance".

Obama DOJ says yes.

Obama DOJ says that MJ is a schedule I "controlled substance", regardless of what the states say.

Obama DOJ says that mere possession of an MMJ card proves "unlawful use" regardless of what the states say.

So, according to the memo, anyone who has stated NO to this questions *and* possesses an MMJ card is in violation of federal law and could be imprisoned for 5-10 years for lying on the form and signing it.

So, its not about "taking your guns away". its about getting you for a 5 year min prison sentence for lying on the application if you checked NO here.

They may never find out..unless you ever have to USE your gun...then they will get you for lying and you will go to prison, nor for any 2nd amendment issue, but for lying on a federal application.

If you say YES, you havent broken the law but your attempt to buy a gun will be denied.

The regulatory malfeasance of the Obama Administration is mind boggling.

I will not vote GOP...EVER...but Obama is not getting my vote.

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 1:26pm Permalink
katie kannabis (not verified)

how can i rescind my medical mj card?  i would rather have my guns and just keep my other business to myself, off grid.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 3:23am Permalink
Tiger Law (not verified)

In reply to by katie kannabis (not verified)

I don't know but Im with you. First, they go after supply (the diispenseries) Next, they will go after demand (the patients). When the ATF raids the dispensaries which refuse to comply with their threats, they are going to confiscate their computers and records. And that's when they will find the "confidential" records. All fhat it will take then is a simple cross reference of registered gun owners and, POW, you are now a federal criminal. I don't have millions of dollars to fight the Feds. There is a lot of tough talk out here but, you will lose. Because the NRA will not support you. And they are the only ones with the money and power to win a 2nd amendment court battle against the Feds. I would do this: a. Buy enough weed to last you forever. If you have a gun, don't EVER share it, sell it, carry it out of your house, trade it, smell like it, or even talk about weed in public. b. Call your doc and ask him/her to cancel your card and delete your records. If he/she says no, have a lawyer write them to demand they delete your files. c. Call the dispensaries you are registered with and ask them to delete your name from their computers. if they refuse, have a lawyer do it. Letters from lawyers usually make people jump. I personally could never vote for a Republican, but I'm DONE with Obama. I may have to sit out the next election, at least at the Presidential level. Vote LEFT on sex and drugs. Vote RIGHT on guns and money.
Sat, 10/15/2011 - 8:32am Permalink
Neal Feldman (not verified)

In reply to by Tiger Law (not verified)

The SCOTUS has already ruled a felon in possession of a gun cannot be penalized for failure to register as such would be a violation of their 5th amendment right against self incrimination.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 3:02am Permalink
Frog (not verified)

The restriction is on "narcotics" and being an "addict" which they loosely define as habitual or daily use. So if a person takes a prescribed pain killer, actual narcotic or synthetic, would they not then be subjected to the same loss of rights.

Additionally a medical card is not necessary for medical marijuana, a doctors recommendation is. My Kaiser Doctors recommended many things, "Vicodin" and a "Statin", that I did not take for example. If a potential medical marijuana patient with a recommendation but no state card, or a patient that is prescribed daily narcotics but does not take them where does that leave them.

Big Government equals Big Problems, For the People by the People, Go Ron Paul.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:10pm Permalink
Powertothepeople89 (not verified)

Vote Ron Paul 2012 The last chance for a free and prosperous nation.. Skeptical? Research your candidates I guarantee you'll change your mind. Ron Paul is the last hope for freedom, spread the word any way you can.
Wed, 01/18/2012 - 12:44am Permalink
Horsley (not verified)

I have never cared much for weed I smoked it a few times back in high school but soon grew to strongly dislike after I seen friend after friend graduatefrom smoking put to doing far more destructive drugs. But in 2007 I was hit trick then drug 200 yards before being ran over leaving me paralyzed from the chest down. Now 5 years later I have developed a rare immune system deficiency that basically causes my immune system to attack anything that isn't native to the human body such as soap , tooth paste, pills ect and I have extremely bad insomnia and I have run out of options besides trying medical marijuana. But me and my family are avid gun enthusiast so now I am forced to choose between my health or one off my passions . Where the hell is the fairness in that ? I understand they don't want the people who abuse the medical marijuana for their personal gratification but what about the people like me are we just screwed ?
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 8:14am Permalink


This is WRONG:

In the meantime, CANORML's Gieringer had some common sense advice for patients and dispensary operators. "If you're a medical marijuana patient, don't mention it when you go buy a gun," recommended Gieringer

If you LIE on ATF form 4473: "Lying on this form is a felony and can be punished by up to five years in prison in addition to fines, even if the transaction is simply denied by the NICS."

If you "don't mention" you have a state issued medical marijuana card on form 4473 and they find out that you do you have committed a FELONY! 

I know a guy who was sentenced to over a year in Federal prison for simply lying on this form. He never bought the gun, he wad denied the purchase and upon further review of his application he was subsequently arrested and convicted. 

Be careful people! 


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 4:43am Permalink
warchild138 (not verified)

Beginning in February 2013 many applicants exceedng one year imprisonment passed the standard background check are now being denied.  The only recourse is to write the FBI for an explanation, which may or may not include the specific conviction responsible.  Any conviction or current indictment for possession of drugs, including misdemeanor possession of any amount of marijuana will also cause a denial on your application.  Also, I am convinced the ATF form required to purchase or redeem guns has been changed recently to include whether you have been convicted or indicted of any crime with a maximum penalty exceeding one year.  This is apparently not a new law, but in the past was not an automatic denial, currently it seems to be.  I have filled out many of these forms in the last year due to being forced by circumstance to pawn many firearms and going through the same process to redeem them as required by a new purchase.  I don not remember seeing the change in wording until I attempted to redeem some guns, and delayed and then denied.  The only explanation for my denial is the fact I am awaiting court for charges of possession, which   I expect to be cleared of due to the charge referring only to residue in a pipe. I am prepared to plead guilty to a paraphernalia charge, but possesssion would require there to be some quantity of substance taken and cataloged as evidence, at least one would think.  The other charge possibly responsible is reckless driving.  But here is something I found today which may help anyone who has been denied, or like me forced to transfer guns to another person due to denial at redemption from pawn.         Federal Statute 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(20)(B), says that a "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" does not include "any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less."    This does not apply if the crime meets the criteria for domestic violence, or while under an DVPO

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 12:26pm Permalink

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