Dave, whats going on---are you now deleting posts to prevent THEIR discomfort at hearing what people really think of THEM?
Have you fucking lost it?

Dave, these people we're talking about here are Nazis! Censorship is *their* fucking thing!
You should put the visceral comments back up where they belong!
They mightn't look good to dwarriors but fuck them. . .they *should* suffer, and suffer. . .and.

Civil rights movements, which the drug war certainly is, historically require and/or result from violent acts committed by gov't agents while enforcing the unlawful dictates of self-serving authoritarians & prohibitionists!

I sincerely hope, but seriously doubt, something good will come from Shivers death, and, it's sad to think that many more deaths, or the 'right death', may still need to occur before constitutional law is reinstated and marijuana is re-legalized!

Perhaps a few cops will decide 'Death during Home Invasion' is not in their best interest and will get some education and/or contact LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)?

Perhaps Mr. Frederick will be equitted and given a medal for defending his property from home invaders?

No one should have to kill or be killed over a shameful lie!

Yeah, Dave, put 'em back up or lose all remaining credibility. Your choice!

Dave, a separate page for the hardest posts with reasons for deletion from the main page might be the answer. That way, honesty'd be intact.
It's a war after all, and collateral shit happens all the time.
As for angry---try incandescent!

i read the banned comments and, yes, they were offensive but the war-on-drugs does this to ordinary people who normally go out of their way to not cause offense.

I was actually about to respond to that comment when it told me "The comment you are trying to respond to no longer exists" .. or something to that gist.

I have to agree with both sides here: yes, the war on drugs does lead to situations like this and it is the absolute fault of the war on drugs and the legislators who empower them. The death of this officer was not the fault of the poor guy inside the house but rather the fault of George W Bush and all his drug war cronies.

But I also agree with Dave in that "Those kinds of comments can be used to destroy an organization's reputation, or to sink the chances that a campaign has to succeed." We know the media would happily misquote that comment and very quickly completely misrepresent this campaign as a bunch of cop-killing lunatics. We have to be very careful to ensure a victory in the war on the war on drugs.

Trying to play the good guy in a Dirty War is plain futile! And ultimately self-defeating! Sorry Dave, you blew it!

I believe that it is essential for each person to do their best to take the 'High' road and Treat Our Friends, Enemy's, and fellow Earthlings the way we would like to be treated, regardless on their view of us. "Do unto others...and all that...If we as people always take the High road in all our dealings, then when we look back in years to come we will be able to stand confident that no matter what...we did the 'Right Thing'.

I think the teachings of Jesus, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King should be studied, practiced, and applied where applicable in generous amounts.

Wishing for death or injury to ANY human is un-human and Madness! (And Madness is ALWAYS insane!!!)

("Madness" is the uncontrollable urge, need, or desire to harm others.
"Insanity" is when a person is so willing to harm others, that they become capable of injuring and even killing themselves!)

"Madness is ALWAYS Insane!"

Jack Grabit,
American Pot-Head.

"The people are ready for change but the Republicans can't seem to stop worshiping their "Sacred Cow" drug war."

It is not only the NeoCon-Republicans. The Democrats (in general), have been complicit, and some have ever been draconian, in support of the drug war. Obama has clearly said he would continue it. Ron Paul is our only chance, people, for at least the next four years..

Having been on the receiving end of a supposed knock and kick your door in raid I can tell you first hand the practice is to knock and kick at the same time and then report to the judge that the rules were followed .Judges always side with "law enforcement" unless the "law enforcement " tools were video taped. I don't believe there is a "law enforcement" tool who would not lie in order to get a conviction. They love to enhance..You have to remember that these "law enforcement " tools are dressed in kevlar body armor with the little nazi helmets and face shields, black balaclavas, ballistic cloth gloves,jock straps ,socks, knee,and elbow shields and carrying (at least in my case )heckler and koch machine guns and of course flash bang stun grenades. I had on a t shirt and shorts and no weapons of any kind in my house unless you want to call my 17 month old daughter a weapon. She was sleeping peacefully as children should and she had part of her hearing blown away by the stun grenade . All the "law enforcement " tools had to do was knock on the door like human beings and I would have asked for a warrant and if they had one let them in. But this is no longer a polite society. They will say they need a dynamic entry so evidence is not destroyed but I'll tell you I've yet to meet anyone who could flush a grow room.As far as the disparaging remarks go.. do any of you think for one second that if Ryan Frederick, had been shot and killed by the "law enforcement" tools.. that they wouldn't have gone out of their way to smear his name and justify his death in the name of the Holy Drug War. Tell me how much they would have cared about the family he would have left behind..

FIRST DEGREE MURDER? WTF? How can they charge him with that UNLESS HE KNEW THEY WERE COMING and made "premeditated" plans to kill his victim/s? Or is this just another example of how they distort the truth --as well as the law-- in order to achieve their sinister ends?

I followed the link to the Virginian-Pilot article and noticed a lot of comments their supporting the suspect's right to defend his home against invaders with deadly force. Let us hope that a grand jury will find in favor of self-defense and not even indict him. This case will be one to watch.

It seems that police get all bent out of shape when one of their own is killed in a drug-raid but when they kill INNOCENT occupant/s the victim's survivors don't give so much as an apology -- let alone admission of wrongdoing. REMEMBER DONALD SCOTT!

It was I who posted one of those inflammatory, anti-police remarks that was deleted. I will not disparage or lambaste David for doing so because he wishes to maintain a civil tone in this forum. After thinking it over some, we should write as we would speak in a public forum at our local town halls because our opponents are watching --and may be reading-- and we need to persuade them that ours is the moral high ground.

I will say this though; with the death of this legally-sanctioned home-invader, I feel no loss to society--unlike the two officers recently gunned down in Georgia who were going after violent and thieving suspects (the type police should be concentrating on rather than growers of plants--maybe OK to bust meth-labs because they can cause fires, explosions, and hazmats bad for the environment but, of course, if there was no Prohibition there'd be no clandestine meth-labs anymore than there was any blinding bathtub gin after 1933).

One more dead cop who, just like every dealer or grower they bust and send away, will be promptly replaced and, unless we convince legislators and executives repeal of the extended Prohibition Phase Two is as appropriate now as it was for Prohibition I, then we should expect more killings, ruined lives, and, of course, expensive burdens on taxpayers to foot the bill.

If a person who made it their life's work to ruin people's lives gets killed, why should we not be glad about this?

I am against state sponsored home invasion, violence, and killing. It is horrible that the US has gone so far against what the framers had in mind. Many grew hemp and female plants and knew there was no harm. I hate the problems created for all by this incident. I have had my home invaded and a gun held to my head while my house and things were violated and eventually stolen from me by virtue of being used to grow a few plants that were illegal. I have always worked and payed taxes and no part of anything I owned was bought with drug money. By the time I paid lawyers etc. I was bankrupt, and incarated.

This is terrible but it makes the government and everyone else take notice. If everyone felt the way this homeowner did maybe the cops would back off. Notice they hardly ever get any kingpins because they are afraid of getting shot, and are scared. The little guy is easier to fight and capture and steal blind. It may take armed resistance to change things. It is time to end this senseless waste of human life and freedom. As long as drugs are illegal they will proliferate. If someone can make money and someone wants to get high things will never be under control. It has been too long of a failed strategy.

Follow the story, folks! Especially the comments:

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/im-not-murderer-they-make-me-out-be

Here's my last post there:

I found my way to this tragic story via

http://stopthedrugwar.org

(a site that should be visited and supported by concerned citizens)

Unfortunately, the failed drug policies of the Commonwealth [and all the other 49 US] facilitates these types of events on a regular basis but usually it is the civilian who winds up being "carried by 6" rather than "judged by 12."

Google the name Donald Scott and see what comes up. There are many, many others like him. TOO MANY.

It's comforting to see that there is a community here that is more supportive of the accused than one that blindly accepts that "government knows best" and "the police are always right" while clamoring for the death penalty. That's the spirit of Th. Jefferson's Virginia!

Just doing my small part.

"fortuenti"

i must stand by my original post .as far as the cop goes .live by the sword die by the sword .its just Carma .he was a hero to some and just another criminal to others .you cant be liked by every body sorry that's life

I hear it. It's there. The anger, the rage, at this prohibmonster. Violence solves nothing but it does remind us of why we need to continue the fight. There is nothing "reasonable" about dynamic entry into private property. The 4th amendment needs restoring. As does most of the rest of whats left of OUR constitution. Obviously the US congress is not listening to the people and their demands for reform. Maybe blood will open up their eyes. Unfortunately prohibition is all about money and a false sense of morality. Hardly anything worth all the misery created. PROHIBITION...GATEWAY TO TYRANNY.

what do people think sending in troops into peoples homes over a little bit of pot.civillians are sick of the police murdering folks to protect drug company profits .if attacked by these forces of evil people must fight back to the last man .maybe some of their tactics used on them in their homes would show them the error of their ways .for christs sake killing people for marijuana this must stop now.

They can hurt the cause, nuff said, I think. And even if I did disagree with him I wouldn't forget for a second who's the worker bee around here and who gets to have fun posting at his workplace. I've had a few posts removed myself for using the word thug to describe drug warriors.
The post 'Point Taken' came up with a conceivable alternative. Have to commend Dave for the way he engaged the 'censored' folk in dialogue about the removals.
As far as Shivers death, much as I hate people who do this kind of work and much as alcohol supremacist bigotry enrages me, I can't rejoice in the slightest at this news. When they're willing to engage us in clean open debate I'll rejoice, because victory will be near.

An officer has died. It's so sad. A 26yr old mother of 6 has died. It's so sad. A 14yr old girl has died. it's so sad. A retired methodist minister, substance abuse counselor has died. It's so sad. All died because of SWAT style exicution of drug search warrants. The saddest thing about all of it is, that none of it had to happen. I have 7 pages, 37 names of innocent people killed needlessly. We can say enough is enough all we want. Deaf ears. It is the police who have to say enough is enough. It is the police who have to refuse to die for this War on Drugs insanity. If I were a police officer on a SWAT raid, and I were told to stay frosty, there may be guns inside, my nerves are going to be on edge, I'm going to be scared near to death. The RAM hits the door, it flies open, I see a figure in the dark holding an AK47, pointed at me. I'm in fear for my life. I fire several rounds, the figure falls to the floor, the toy gun the 10yr old boy was holding shatters as one of my bullets hits it. It's so sad.

Ironman

if he hadn't fired first, he would be dead. And Jarrod Shivers would be a hero.

In my experience, cops are, at best, bullies, liars and thieves, at worst, murderers. I wouldn't, however, given free rein, gun them down in cold blood, although I know a lot of THEM would happily do it to people like me.

So Shivers "left a family." How nice for him. How many other families did he destroy in his career as a "door breacher"? How many other kids did he leave fatherless, motherless, homeless?

No, I'll save my sympathy for Ryan Frederick; he may not know it yet, but he, too, has lost his life.

Just a update - it seems Jarrod lost his life in the b-and-e (or whatever the police call it) over ... nothing. Follow the newest info here:

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle_blog/2008/feb/04/a_cop_is_dead_because_an_informa

On censorship - well, needless to say I don't like it. However, I'm on David's train of thought here. One or two pulled the "nazi card" on him, accusing him of being like the Drug Warriors because they too censor. Those people might want to remember that these "nazis" also resort to demonizing people ("druggies", "pushers" etc.) without any real evidence of who they are and what they do - so ya'all might not wanna play this game ;)

Also there's the proportion and content. Some posts here were censored, because they smeared a police officer who died doing his job, and it seems on no other grounds that what people are guessing at. That's just strategically unsound (try to think this through on your own). Not to mention that it's simply rude and distasteful to mock the dead and their families!

This sort of censorship is hardly in the same league as what the establishment perpetrates. David's "terrible censorship" has denied us ... what? Some nasty remarks it would seem, and nothing else much. No truth or information has been censored as a result of this.

It has been almost a month since Jarrod died, so I thought I would "Google" his name to find out what is going on with the case. I came across this board and was very surprised by your feeling towards the police, and government in general.

I should preface this with the fact, that I grew up with Jarrod, served time in the military with him, and was the best man at his wedding. He was my best friend, and knew the dangers involved with his job. He loved his job, but not because he was a bully or thief, but because he believed in right and wrong. He was not out to ruin peoples lives, he was there to protect the people who decide to abide by the laws of this country. Granted, the war on drugs is overwhelming, for the police and for the drug user, but that cannot negate the fact that he was doing his job. Although, he did focus on drug enforcement, his accolades were far greater than busting the local drug dealer. He worked for years to keep the streets safe, the same streets that you walk on each day, but take for granted.

Your focus is on drugs, however, lets think about all the other crime that is conducted throughout this country. These men and women risk their lives each day, to protect the rights of you and every other citizen. I have read your points on "censorship", "prohibition" and all the other issues you are afflicted with, being part of this country. Seriously though, do you really feel that cocaine and meth are good for society? This was just one drug bust, amongst many others, that happened to focus on weed. Guys and girls, wake up, there is a bad drug problem in this country and many people are dying, not by the police, but by the drugs themselves.

Anyway, I am not going to write a dissertation about drugs, but I would like to say that Jarrod was a very good soul. His laughter and disposition towards life is something we can all learn from. I, like many of you, know a good amount of police officers, and Jarrod was unique.

He was a very good man, good father, and good husband. Even though you disagree with the method in which the police "breach" your home, you must be able to see the benefit of having them protect your life. Jarrod did not die because he was a "pig" that was out for a fight, he died because he was doing his job. If Ryan did not have anything to worry about, then why did he fire a bullet through the door and kill my friend. I consider myself open minded, however, I really disagree with the animosity that you have towards this issue. I am sorry that all of you will not get the chance to meet Jarrod, because I think that you would have been very surprised that the person you hate, was actually a good guy.

ok first let me say i am truely sorry for the family that was left behind. now that said i fully believe in my second amendment and yes i am republican and yes i carry concealed weapons religiously. so when it comes to this tragic situation poor detective shivers was just a pawn doing his job wrong place at the wrong time situation but fredrick was doing what he felt best for his family and as the man of the house his job is to protect them. so this is truely a tragic thing. people who think they should praise the "cop killer" shame on you and wait till you need the police you should not be so lucky for their help. and to the people who say kill the "cop killer" shame on you to for 2 wrongs dont make it right. i feel fredrick did what he thought was best and the man shows much remorse try to place yourself in his shoes.....think what would you have done......again i am local in virginia beach and i truely send my condolences to the family but.......this man fredrick is now being bombarded by the system and chesapeake is hush hush so now where do we stand with our great AMERICAIN rights?

Chesapeake resident, just popping in to call you on your censorship Shill! You want to stop the drug war, we do that by being armed and killing every cop that tries dynamic entry.

Screw this loser's family, he should have known better than to be a narc officer if he wanted to watch them grow up.

This and more to every cop in this evil nation, Borden. You should be ashamed of yourself for being in a position to call for war against these swine, and not doing so.

marijuana is the only drug you cant overdose on......alcohol, pain pills like vikadin and percecet even advil, cocaine, heroien....people have to go look on the street and talk to gangsters for pot....thats why they grow it just to smoke for free.....if marijuana was legal....a innocent cop would of never died.....20 years in jail for growing pot....IT IS THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENTS FAULT FOR KILLING A SWAT OFFICER....REMEMBER THIS...CAN YOU OVERDOSE ON POT???? NO CAN YOU OVERDOSE ON LEGAL ALCOHOL AND PAIN MEDICINE? YES...I THINK MY POINT IS MADE. LEGALIZE MARIJUANA...SELL IT JUST LIKE CIGGARETTES...AND DONATE ALL THE PROFITS TO FREE AMERICAN HEALTH CARE AND BETTER EDUCATION...HOW IS AMERICA A FREE COUNTRY? JUST LIKE PROHIBITION MARIJUANA WILL BE LEGAL....AND NO I DONT FEEL BAD FOR WRITING THIS IT IS SO TRUE......THINK ABOUT IT....CAN YOU OVERDOSE ON POT? NO REMEMBER THAT.....GO DRINK A BOTTLE OF VODKA AND TAKE 10 PERCET AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.....

Let's face it. There is money in the drug trade and that is why there is a drug trade to begin with. I personally do not agree with legalizing Cocaine, Meth, Heroin Ecstacy and other drugs in that category.... HOWEVER this cop was killed breaching a door for a marijuana grow... I have not read the whole story, so it could have been a large commercial grow or it could have been a small personal grow..... It does not matter. Marijuana SHOULD be legal. There is absolutely NO reason that it should be classified the same as the drugs listed above. There is what, 12 or so states now in this country who have actually legallized Medical Marijuana, the trend is that is going to continue and after that will come true legalization. Other states and the federal government needs to take a good hard look at taking Marijuana off the same schedule as those other drugs and reduce or even eliminate it as a priority.

This cop was killed for a stupid reason.... They should never have been there to begin with..

Legalize Cannabis and take the money out of the Equation.... Do that and all the Criminal activity associated with it goes away.

See the evidence of fbi/cia efforts to dominate the world through inhumane & murderous methods;accept the cia/fbi as overlords, or STOP THEM; Do nothing and accept responsibility for their crimes against Humanity.

The tactics employed globally by the fbi/*cia reflect the homicidal profile of the enforcers and perpetrators of the new, stagnant and completely controlled world. These tactics include, but are not limited to the following :

Mass murder (sometimes one at a time)

Torture (physical and psychological)

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/affidavit2007.html

Terrorism

Blackmail (of a mortifying type)

Stalking and kidnapping and fraudulent stings by law enforcement

Burglary, robbery, theft, fraud, extortion

http://www.constitution.org/col/mwswear.htm

Abuse of civil process and disabling calumny
Financial isolation and ruination
Human experimentation (of a monstrous type)
Programming for suicide (inter alia) of the targeted individuals

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/statement.html

Psychological operations and mind control
Psychoelectronic bombardment

Sosbee is an active victim/target of fbi/cia high tech assaults.
See links
http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/non-consensual.html

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/hightechassau.html

http://londonontario.indymedia.org/?q=node/673

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/part5-updatefor2.html

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/part11-updatefor.html

C h e m i c a l , Viral & Biological Assaults:

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/part16-updatefor.html

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/tooth14.html

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/letterformthemed.html

Psychoelectronic Assaults:
http://sosbeevfbi.ning.com/forum/topics/psychoelectronic-weapon

Nukings:
(Warning: graphic material, adult viewing only) To see what really can happen go to:
http://titan.iwu.edu/%7Erwilson/Peace.pdf

Intrusive, continuous and disturbing surveillance (physical and electronic) twenty four hours a day, seven days a week
-aided by tracking devices implanted in the person and properties of the Target
http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/tracking.html

http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/brainscanofsosbe.html

-with invasions into home, office and car; and with strategic tamperings therein designed to drive the Target insane

The fbi/cia agents, operatives, thugs, assigns, handlers and supporters are your neighbors, friends, relatives, spouses, representatives, doctors, etc.

Click here for "The Law Of The United States And All The Globe Under The New World Order"
http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/thelawoftheunite.html

Click here To See Evidence Of Corruption In The United States Embassies Worldwide
http://www.sosbeevfbi.com/psychotronicscon.html#dec 24 2005

USA Admission to Use of Neuronal Entrainment, Etc.:
See the following admission by USA, showing that my reports of high tech assaults on my person are legitimate.
The data shown in the Neuron Entrainment link below confirms that indeed the fbi/cia/marines, etc. have (and use) the high tech weaponry against human beings, and more particularly against this veteran:
Note that under the psychoelectronic bombardment, chemical and stalking sections (at ‘world in a box’), there are several links; here are five more very important links to add to the list:
add to the list:
1)
C h e m i c a l, biological, and viral assaults on human beings
http://www.governmentattic.org/docs/FBI-Army_Bacteriological_Warfare-Weapons.pdf
2)
FBI efforts to hide identities of its thugs, thieves, assassins, dirty cops and self serving corrupt bureaucrats
http://www.governmentattic.org/docs/FBI_FOIPA_EffectOnLawEnforcement_2004.pdf
3)
Psychoelectronic bombardment http://www.governmentattic.org/docs/USMC_NeuronalEntrainment_NonlethalApplications_1998.pdf
4)
United States Army Civilian Inmate Labor program
http://www.apfn.org/pdf/prison_camps.pdf
5)
See Germs & Viruses 'Made In The USA'
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2007_hr/germs.pdf

See the following links for more on fbi thuggery & homicidal mindset:
http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.com/2006/01/how-to-spot-cointelpro-agents.html
and:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/FBI/Verelli_SecretWar_BDF.html
and:
http://justicedenied.org/issue/issue_27/steven_manning_awarded_6million.html
and:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/fedagencies/april97/fbi_4-16.html
and:
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/30/183028.shtml

*
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8085945499556832271&hl=en